Protoclocks, escapements and closing the loop in PM

[cloud camper]

Thanks Alan - fun to think out of the box - or go back to a very old box!

Nice job on working with Jim. Of course he is an "interesting" character.
But your continued smooth communication with him is calming.

He's really not a bad guy just has some issues. Don't we all!

[AB Hammer]

I really don't hate Jim L. I feel he is confused hurt and scared of the future. Yes he has drove me to some very bad anger, but I am a forgiving sort. Even though I have some emails from him that are hard to forgive and he has posted things that are hard to forgive. So I sometimes consider him a trial of life. I really only tell him the truth about wheel work. Of course he tries very hard to nudge me into showing my secrets.

[cloud camper]

Escapement vertical plate mounted on test stand.

Was an auto engine assembly stand last week!

Clock spring will parallel horizontal tube of stand.

Detent bar will parallel top of escapement plate.

Test pendulum on far side of plate.

Have to figure where the clock hands will go!

[Grimer]

.........................................
.........................................


........................................... Stirling Kontax Engine


Above is an image of an upmarket Stirling Engine I treated myself to some years ago. I bought the ready-made version rather than the kit since I didn't trust my building skills.

The traditional demonstration of its operation is to place it over a cup of hot coffee whereupon, with reference to the above front view, the flywheel rotates merrily in the clockwise direction. For this case the coffee is the source of angular momentum and the air (the alpha-atmosphere) is the quasi infinite sink. .

By analogy with Cloud Camper's clock the coffee is the analog of the mainspring and the gravitational field (gamma-atmosphere) is the analog of
the sink.

Below I have prepared a diagram of the relevant Stirling Engine power cycle.



Paradoxically one can also get the engine to run by standing it on a block of ice. I say paradoxically because most people associate reciprocating engines with a source of energy hotter than the ambient field. Come to think of it I know of only one other example where energy is being drawn from the ambient field. That is the Rubber Band Motor where the energy is being drawn from the ambient Newtonian Gravitational field.

The other paradox about this ice example is that whereas with the hot coffee the flywheel rotates in a clockwise direction (CW), with the ice the flywheel rotates in a counter-clockwise direction (CCW). If the flywheel were driving a clock, say, then the hands will be going backwards. Instead of "back to the future" we will have forward to the past. :-)

The CCW rotation means that the Stirling Engine cycle is also CCW as shown in the diagram below.



Anyone familiar with the Carnot cycle will recognise that this CCW cycle is a refrigeration cycle. The refrigeration effect can be demonstrated by putting a drop of water on the top surface of the engine and driving the wheel CCW. I've been loath to do this with my Kontax since its clearly rather delicate and I'm scared of wrecking it. However, I've decided to bite the bullet and order a small blower on Amazon which should be gentle enough when applied tangentially to the flywheel. When it arrives I'll give it a go. :-)

The CCW rotation also ties in neatly with the CCW rotation of the stress strain curve for rubber in the Rubber Band Motor (RBM) which I claim draws energy from the Newtonian Gravitational field, an ambient field of much finer structure than that of the air (alpha-atmosphere).

It is interesting to note that a Stirling Engine will work in outer space with the photon particles of the beta-atmosphere, the electromagnetic ether. If one face of the Stirling is turned towards the sun then it will heat up. The opposite face will be turned towards the darkness of space and will radiate energy away. Thus there will be a positive temperature gradient between the faces which will drive the engine. One would of course need perfect seals (or em connection) to prevent the engines working fluid from escaping.

The earth is akin to a Stirling since it absorbs energy in the day and radiates it at night. Perhaps the earth's atmosphere sandwiched between the ionosphere and the ground is its working fluid. It would be interesting to calculate if such a process had any contribution to the earth's rotation.

The two Stirling cycles really need to be viewed in 3D, with time as the Z axis. This makes clear their hierarchically symmetry. They have the form of a left-hand/right-hand handshake where thumb is opposite thumb, fingers opposite fingers and palm opposite palm. Try it for yourself by shaking your left-hand with your right hand (c.f. the following quote from Cloud's first post in this thread:
"If we stand back from the process, we see that we have a 'you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours' mechanical arrangement, or more precisely a physical handshaking protocol, almost as used in computer file transfers").

The orthogonal relation between the variables can also be seen as analogous to the orthogonal relations between those well know left-hand and right-hand rules of electromagnetism.

If the Stirling is driven on one side by a cold source and the other by a hot source and the sources are of equal intensity then the cold source will be attempting to turn the flywheel CCW and the hot source attempting to turn the wheel CW. The net result will be stalemate and the wheel will not move. The sources will be balanced. If the intensity of the cold is greater than that of the hot then the difference between the two intensities will drive the wheel CCW. Reversing the intensity difference will drive the wheel CW.

In the next posts I will attempt to extend these concepts to pendulums on each side of a wheel.

[ovyyus]

If the Stirling is driven on one side by a cold source and the other by a hot source and the sources are of equal intensity then the cold source will be attempting to turn the flywheel CCW and the hot source attempting to turn the wheel CW. The net result will be stalemate and the wheel will not move.

Bollocks. I thought we cleared this up some time ago. How can a hot source and a cold source be of 'equal intensity'?

In the example of your little Stirling engine, if you place it on a cup of hot water (bottom plate heated) then the flywheel will turn CW. While it is still sitting on the cup of hot water if you then place ice on the top plate the flywheel will still turn CW, but even faster due to the larger thermal gradient across the engine.

[Grimer]

I'm letting both act from the bottom plate.

I'm sitting the Stirling on the hot coffee.

I'm sitting the Stirling on a block of ice.

I showed a photo of it sitting on a tin with the lid in contact with a solid block of ice inside. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Yes, here it is.



To make sure the lid was making good contact with the ice I turned it upside down, filled it with water and froze it. I then put it back on the tin full of ice.

2nd Edit: ... and the hot and cold sources can be at equal intensity difference from the environment by one being at + fn(x) from the ambient and the other being at - fn(x) from the ambient temperature.

I'm aware of what happens when you put ice on the top but that is not relevant to the implications of an ambient environment.

[ovyyus]

Attached is a gif animation of the principle at work inside a Stirling engine. Air expands and contracts as it is alternately exposed to the hot and cold plate. The expanding and contracting air drives a small bellows (or power piston). It should be clear how this simple system will react to reversing the thermal polarity of the plates. Hope that helps.

[Grimer]

I like it.
That's the simplest diagrammatic animation I've seen.
Thanks, Bill.

[cloud camper]

Another cool component under construction.

24" ratchet arm with one way bearing installed.

Has to be light and strong with low inertia.

Aircraft quality stuff.

Used to wind clock spring, will receive pulses from jerk mechanism.

Can be used to manually preload spring a few turns.

Will get bearings tomorrow and then install spring axle and ratchet
arm.

[Allen_T]

I really don't hate Jim L. I feel he is confused hurt and scared of the future. Yes he has drove me to some very bad anger, but I am a forgiving sort. Even though I have some emails from him that are hard to forgive and he has posted things that are hard to forgive. So I sometimes consider him a trial of life. I really only tell him the truth about wheel work. Of course he tries very hard to nudge me into showing my secrets.

Alan,
Just afraid of you. As you said, you know where I live.

edited to add; Alan, here is Scott's quote of the day when I was just on the homepage, "If I had thought about it, I wouldn't have done the experiment. The literature was full of examples that said you can't do this."
- Spencer Silver on the work that led to the unique adhesives for 3M "Post-It" Notepads.

Why does this matter ? Do you remember ? You did tell me your secrets and let me know that you could teach me to be like you.
Do you remember my answer ? I said no thanks, I'll learn from Bessler.
Unfortunately, you can't touch me on facebook. I don't get to discuss my build with other people but in time, I will.
In the mean time, you are effectively banned from my work. You're not Bessler, accept it.

Jim

p.s., as for Scott's quote of the day, I think the same thing applies to me, don't build his drawings you and rlortie said. All none runners you 2 said.
We'll see. :-D

[AB Hammer]

Jim L, Jim L, Jim L

Fishing for more attention again? LOL

So I know your address. Frankfort KY. and nothing more, but you know my street address and have since the beginning. I couldn't care less. You are the only reason I may not move back to KY because I don't want to even by accident run across you, you wast enough of my time on forums. Frankfort is not a direction anyway. If come back to KY I would go for Louisville or Elizabeth town where I could easily call home again. But I have here till my Dad dies to help take care of the headaches that come after. Then I don't ever want to see Homer LA again. This town hoards a vacuum. Texas is one of my possible directions in time. But there is to much stuff going on for now to make such a dissension.

The real truth is, you threaded to come down and shut me up permanently. It is an email you sent me. Even though I won't wast my time trying to chase down an idiot but I will defend myself with in the law completely. I don't break the law for stupid reasons.

So just go on and build your wheels. I will build mine and you will never be a part of them. LMAO

[Grimer]

Another cool component under construction.

24" ratchet arm with one way bearing installed.

Has to be light and strong with low inertia.

Aircraft quality stuff.

Used to wind clock spring, will receive pulses from jerk mechanism.

Can be used to manually preload spring a few turns.

Will get bearings tomorrow and then install spring axle and ratchet
arm.

Nice. :-)

[AB Hammer]

CC

I have to agree with Frank. Nice arm section and a well mounted bearing.

Alan

[cloud camper]

Thanks guys - wish I could take credit for the fab.

My machinist really enjoyed making it. I just told him what was
needed and he comes up with the design.

I think he's really getting into the project and finally understands how it's supposed to work.

Just a few small parts left to fab and then we'll see.

But I know from experience with experimental aircraft that at least some reconfiguration will be necessary. Usually I would have to build an airplane part four or five times before I got one that was good enough to trust your life to.

I keep telling him it only has to work for 10 seconds and then whatever breaks will get redesigned!

[Grimer]

...
In the next posts I will attempt to extend these concepts to pendulums on each side of a wheel.

On second thoughts I can see that CC is going to have quite enough people diverting from the main theme so I'll continue on my Bessler's Secret thread.