Merseburg1, What I see..

[rlortie]

rlortie,

Has their been mention of the weight of the wheel, or the weight of the end of the pendulums? I am starting to think that only the wheel, pendulums and possibly the hanging box are together in its motion.
I also wonder if the wheel had a starting point?

Darrell

The weight of the wheel is irrelevant as long as it is static (and in my view dynamically) balanced and you have proper support to hold it. The heavier it is the harder it will be to stop it once in motion.

Forget the rope and box, it is only there to show that the machine could pick it up. Before reaching the pulley the wheel would have to be stopped.

Please refer to my first post in this thread. The only way that the machine could drop the box would be using Jim_Mitche's input about the Dutch method. Which by the way has been employed on sailing ships for centuries.

The one way wheel has no set starting point and the two way wheel will seek its own when stopped, requiring a push to start.

As for the weight of the pendulums please refer to previous posts here and in General discussion.

Ralph

[Jonathan]

The real problem Jonathan is new people reading Darrels posts won't see what is really behind his mask. Unless they do some research and that might not be very likely.

I agree, but Bill's first post should have been sufficient. The truth is that Darrel hasn't been convicted in a court of law, and I'm content to ignore the (convincing) fraud allegations until then. Of course I have myself called him a fraud based on mathematical analysis of the information he gave me, but further name calling accomplishes nothing. Pete, I don't remember how much you said was swindled, but I remember it was a lot, and I suggest you press charges if you can prove your case. Once there's a confirmation of conviction, Darrel should be banned from the board.

[ovyyus]

... Darrel hasn't been convicted in a court of law... Once there's a confirmation of conviction, Darrel should be banned from the board.

Jonathan, you're being facetious. This board doesn't need a court of law to rule on anything! If you think Darrell should be banned from the board then why don't you just say so.

Actually, just out of sheer curiousity I've decided to conduct a poll to find out what other board members think - let the Jury decide :P

EDIT: here is the poll link http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=797

[Michael]

Darrel,

Shouldn't a person that wishes to end a business relationship be able to do so, and take what is owed to them by way of property, or do you work by Mafia rules?

Michael

As far as I am concerned, I continue to have a business consideration with Pete, even thought it seems to have ended, I am still going to keep him informed of my progess. I meant Pete in Toronto and he seen my machine, then he said he understood its simplicity and we continued from their.

[sleepy]

rlortie,
You seem very well versed and knowledgable in this area,so maybe you can answer this.I remember reading that the wheels were very heavy,the largest being possibly 700 pounds or so.I also remember reading that Bessler lifted and moved the small wheel by himself for inspection of the axle,and that 2 men moved the largest wheel at the castle.I understand that the weights had been removed from the largest wheel before moving,but that still should have left 300 pounds.It was reported to have been translocated several times.Are we fairly sure of the wheel weights,or is it completely conjecture?

[rlortie]

Gentleman,

I informed some of you by private post that I would show Darrell respect and monitor what impressions he made with or without my influence.

My philosophy is that you cannot be given respect you have to earn it.

Darrell, at this point I will publicly state how you come across to me. I do not care about your past or if you tried to or did swindle someone. I only look upon you regarding your posts in this thread. I must admit that some of the questions you have been leading with are not the type expected from a person with a receptive approach, or who has come close to building a working wheel unless by accident.

I will still answer your questions not just for you but for the benefit of those that may find some value in them. In the mean time do a little studying on basic physics regarding gravity, pendulums, and basic mechanics. Look, study and scrutinize the pictured wheel we are talking about. Then and only then should you be asking questions of the questionable and not the obvious.

Now! can we get back to titled subject.

Ralph

[rlortie]

rlortie,
You seem very well versed and knowledgable in this area,so maybe you can answer this.I remember reading that the wheels were very heavy,the largest being possibly 700 pounds or so.I also remember reading that Bessler lifted and moved the small wheel by himself for inspection of the axle,and that 2 men moved the largest wheel at the castle.I understand that the weights had been removed from the largest wheel before moving,but that still should have left 300 pounds.It was reported to have been translocated several times.Are we fairly sure of the wheel weights,or is it completely conjecture?

Sleepy,

I feel that the heavier the more mass, which dictates more inertial energy. If the wheel is balanced weight is irrelevant to it's operation in relation to itself.

As for relocating, note: they state it was moved not lifted. I do not believe I would have any problem rolling a 700 pound balanced wheel on a level floor. I know I can push a 1992 Mustang up a 1/8" per foot incline as I have done it and it weighs more than Besslers wheel as described.

If I have 300 pounds of inertial force turning at 20 RPM which in turn is attached by belt drive to a 1200 pound wheel with a two to one ratio meaning it is turning at 40 RPM, then repeat this proccess again, I guarantee you that it is going to take a long while to stop it and a little longer to get it up to speed.

A little history research will show that gold mines in Nevada went so deep that steam engines were connected to forged flywheels in excess of 40' in diameter to raise and pump out the water.

Ralph

[Ed]

EDIT: I didn't see there was a second page before I posted this so hopefully it still makes sense!


Thanks for responding Darrell, but I do have one more question for the record. You can answer any way you like, but please answer.

Do you:

A) have a working device, and by working I mean a wheel that will continue to turn on it's own indefinitely?

B) have a device that in your estimation is very close to working but not there yet?

C) have a device that looked promising at first but once built didn't pan out?

D) other (please explain)

So please answer A, B, C or D.

Thank you.

[VANDUGEGS]

ssmith,

<(Thanks for responding Darrell, but I do have one more question for the record. You can answer any way you like, but please answer.>

Do you:

A) have a working device, and by working I mean a wheel that will continue to turn on it's own indefinitely?

YES, I DO!

Thank You for those first four words, they are refreshing.

Darrell Vandusen Sr

[jim_mich]

Darrel,

What is the longest your wheel has turned by itself before you stopped it?

A) Less than 20 turns

B) 20 to 30 turns

C) Too many to count





How does your wheel start?

A) From any position.

B) Only from a certain 'best' position

C) Needs a push to start.




How well made are the wheel parts?

A) Well made professionally machined parts

B) Poor quality hand made parts with torch cut weights of uneven size.

C) Medium quality home made parts.




Have you ever tested the output of your wheel?

A) Yes

B) Wheel never ran long enough to test.

C) No



For the record here. I signed a non-disclosure form with Darrell. I've see Darrell's wheel videos. I know how Darrel's wheel is built. And I don't find any reason why it would work. His basic idea has been around in different forms for many years. I can't find anything special about his wheel. And yet he continues to state his wheel works?

[Ed]

I have FTP space for things like a large video if anyone is interested? Perhaps Darrell would like to put a video of the wheel continuously turning up on this space for all to see?

[jim_mich]

A video showing 1/4 of the wheel during one revolution is not a continuously turning wheel.

A video showing the whole wheel but not turning is not a continuously turning wheel.

A grainy video of a VCR TV screen showing a wheel starting 1/6 turn is not a continuously turning wheel.

A close up showning parts of the wheel slow down and stop is not a continuously turning wheel.


Darrell says he has 'lots' of videos. I've asked him to copy tapes and ship them to me, I'll even reimburse him the cost of copying and shipping. But he will never answers me about that. When I first started dealing with Darrell I assumed he would send me a good quality ten or fifteen minute VCR tape. But he wanted money and a few weeks for the Canadian winter weather to warm up. He wanted to bring his wheel and the tapes to me. Darrell wanted to come stay with me and for me to support him while we worked on his wheel. My wife said "No way!" and I agreed with her.

[rlortie]

rlortie, You seem very well versed and knowledgable in this area,so maybe you can answer this.I remember reading that the wheels were very heavy,the largest being possibly 700 pounds or so.I also remember reading that Bessler lifted and moved the small wheel by himself for inspection of the axle,and that 2 men moved the largest wheel at the castle.I understand that the weights had been removed from the largest wheel before moving,but that still should have left 300 pounds.It was reported to have been translocated several times.Are we fairly sure of the wheel weights,or is it completely conjecture?

Sleepy,

As a follow up and to hopefully get this thread back on topic I will add this to my previous thread.

Two men moved the large wheel without weights. Makes a lot of sense to me, if the weights were left in the wheel it would have moved itself. That is if the pendulums were not required as some surmise.

Good word "surmise" I think we should use it more, it is fitting for what we talk about.

I have no idea about the weights other than what has already been quoted, and that is, they weighed about 4 lbs. I feel that the weights were and should be as heavy as what the wheel rim can withstand when they collide with it. The heavier the weight the more torque, too much and no wheel.

Also note that the picture or pictures indicates that the rim was made of what looks like dowels placed tightly against each other. Such construction would be springy or able to absorb a lot of kinetic energy and transfer it to wheel motion. It also may be built this way to impede wheel roll by creating a washboard effect.

It's all conjecture until its built and tested. in the mean time we will surmise.

Ralph Lortie

[John Collins]

I feel I should add a note of explanation here. The estimated weight of 700 pounds was made by myself in my book, "Perpetual Motion, An Ancient Mystery Solved?" and could have been considerably less. I made the estimate based on two things. Firstly the maximum weight that two men could possibly lift and carry (not roll) and secondly the total possible weight of the weights, if you follow me. I then worked out the weight of the wheel minus the weights, using a simply skeletal framework of wood I designed and estimated the volume of wood used. I assumed they used north European pine and using some easily obtainable tables for specific gravity of the wood I came up with a figure. I added in the weights of canvas and other materials, I think from memory the total came to something around 400 pounds. I then tried adding a number of 4 pound weights times eight and 16 and 32 and so on. I came to the conclusion that 700 pounds was probably a maximum possible weight and that the actual weight of the wheel was probably somewhere between 500 and 700 pounds.

John Collins

[Jonathan]

That lift and carry part is important, it wouldn't be possible to remove the wheel from the supports without lifting it, at least a little.
You're right Bill, but as I pointed out in your other thread, it'd really help.
Ssmith, I'd be glad to send you the video I have. Just email me to let me know if you have space for 5MB in your inbox (actually 3.8MB, but it shows up in my inbox as 5 for some reason).