A good lead ?

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Robinhood46
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Robinhood46 »

Fletcher wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 9:36 pm
From your vid Spring assisted Pawls would seem the best choice for all round performance, and Algodoo seems to be able to handle that ..
Algodoo can handle it, in the sense that you can get them to function. Where it gets frustrating is what i need to do, to get it to function, is generally counter productive, and unrealistic.
For example; small metal hooks with 8 mm of movement would suffice to hold an arm in potion and have little effect on overall balance, addition counter weights, to the hook, could be added to reduce the negative effect even more. Algodoo doesn't allow anything small, or any interaction with little movement, it doesn't like it, objects go through each other if the density of them is realistic. Things need to be oversized and far heavier than they would in the real world.
When we are trying to achieve something with a very small dominance, the effect the mechanisms have on the overall COG of a system needs to be the strict minimum, unless the mechanism's function is shifting it's mass in a favourable manner, which i find to rarely be the case.
Everything is too big and clumsy.

Algodoo is bit like trying to repair a pocket watch, with the tools from a HGV mechanic's toolbox.
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thx4
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

I wanted to thank you all for your very nice messages... 🙂
The line RH46 is drawing is also mine, although in the last 3 years we've clashed a good ten times 🙂
I present the latest exploration version, the work is passable, I'd have to take the time to redo some clean 3D parts, for now it'll do.
The movements are face/face.
I feel like I'm in a Ferrari, but I don't know where the gearbox or clutch is (I'm not talking about the engine) lol.
As Sam would say, “no surprises”, but a pleasant if unsatisfying movement.


https://youtu.be/WJhbwrWC5dQ
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
Sam Peppiatt
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Thanks thx4! I'm glad some body reads my BS------------Sam
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thx4
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

Image
Image
Image

A few suggestions from RH46, and he'll explain the details of his ideas later...
Last edited by thx4 on Fri May 10, 2024 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

Image
In this clockwise position, around 11:30 a.m., all you'd have to do is move stop "A" back 1 centimetre to the right (temporarily) and you've got the MP, but beware: the spring must also pull further.
There are lots of solutions for this... RH46 has already presented some ideas.
I'm open to all good ideas.🙂
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Robinhood46 »

Thanks for posting them THX4.
I think they are self explanatory.
Maybe one thing worth noting, is that they are independent to the wheel. So that the arms can take it in turns to move the COG without the need for the other to move back to where it was.
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Robinhood, tha4,
I was thinking of a pendulum on each side. On the up side it would have a cam to lift the arm back up. Just an idea-----------------Sam
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Robinhood46 »

Are you suggesting there would be 8 pendulums that are fixed (swivelling) to the wheel, and they take it in turns to swing back and lift the weight at 9 o'clock, like the spring tries to do, in THX4's video?
Or two pendulums fixed to each pair of arms, that go around with the arms?
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Robinhood,
Two pendulums one on each side, one for each arm fixed to the wheel with a cam for lifting the arms back up on the up side-------------Sam
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by Robinhood46 »

Sam Peppiatt wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 9:06 pm
Two pendulums one on each side, one for each arm fixed to the wheel with a cam for lifting the arms back up on the up side
The weights aren't lifted "back up" on the upside, because they wouldn't have moved back to where they were. They would just be lifted up on the upside.
Because the weights would only be lifted up on the upside, the pendulum would need to be lifted up with it, or the next revolution, the pendulum wouldn't be able to lift it up again, because the weight would have evolved around the wheel and no longer be lift upable, unless the pendulum was fixed to the arm, or there was another pendulum fixed to the wheel to do the lifting.

I like the idea of pendulums doing the lifting, even if i do think the lifting should be going on at 3 not 9, or as near to it as possible.
Maybe a small 1 pound pendulum can swing at the desired position and raise a 4 pound weight the few centimetres needed to shift the COG in the desired manner.

Maybe the pendulums could be the weights themselves and their swinging causes the shifting of the arms.

The more ideas the merrier
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by andyblues »

hi guys love this approach the weights taking a position under the center of g the axis works but as you say creates very low returns and keels later any way but what is does expose is the energy at the top which is needed to create motion over all but what is needed is energy at the fall and energy reduction on the lift this i have using a simular approach that has been shown in the linkage between the two arms on the rear i have a simular system but it works via a cable and a pulley which fits Besslers clues i have 30 degrees of movement and the keel is light and the momentum high it almost goes to the tdc and does what yours does but the keel is just holding it off ,this approach shows the most promise from any thing i have made i just need to figure out how to get the falling reaction to start earlier and i believe i have it ,i would not trust that comment but i have to believe in my work , any how the point i am trying to make is the zenith is a good point to create a reaction/exchange and it keeps the system light enough to allow the momentum to cause rotation however this area of reaction alone will not create the kind of power that besslers wheel did so in as much as it is a good approach its not the full story only a small part but a very important part i think i was strugling with going further on my present approach but now see new ways forward that look a lot more promising due to your sharing your work thank you all Andy
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

Hi Andy, I share your view on the simplicity of the subject and its effectiveness, we'll see where it takes us. All the best for the future.
I produced a small variation following a brainstorm with RH46 this morning.
I'm still wondering about the reality of B's wheel: it couldn't be constantly out of balance, and when it started up it had to be in balance, since it had to be started up for it to self-accelerate... Therefore, BELOW a certain speed, it was in fact in equilibrium, the weights had to pass through a stage from static to dynamic. For my part, this induces certain mechanisms and not others...


https://youtu.be/K4EAxZwoz5k
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by agor95 »

Hi thx4
thx4 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:31 pm ...
I produced a small variation following a brainstorm with RH46 this morning.
...
Therefore, BELOW a certain speed, it was in fact in equilibrium, the weights had to pass through a stage from static to dynamic.
I think it is reasonable that a device has an equilibrium state when it's Center of Mass is below the axle. There is no need to raise the CoM above the axle but find a shifting of the weights to move the CoM to one side of the other.

If you are using the clues then the CoM moves to the left and the wheel turns anti-clockwise. At least we have positive torque in a one directional device.

Regards
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
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thx4
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

I've simplified the mechanics 🙂
But this is the most efficient, the next will have 1 or more arms independent of each other but will have a contact link following the most efficient angle.

https://youtu.be/RVyH5t4LlDQ
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Re: A good lead ?

Post by thx4 »

Some news 🤪

https://youtube.com/shorts/6Flta0Co1Pk? ... FntV2W4Kjh

Then with two staggered modules to find the best angle, not really looked for yet. More time next week.

https://youtu.be/AnEJD1WtLpM?si=7ygNrELTTMWmWZrr
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
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