The Bessler Curse

[graham]

Thanks Gene, I missed that thread somehow .

I wonder if Randi would go for a patent. These millionaires can sometimes be quite ruthless. (Trust me I'm a millionaire

Graham

[AgingYoung]

Graham,

Ruthlessness spans the socioeconomic spectrum. He might yet I doubt he would. His specialty is debunking the paranormal. It's an interesting question. If I happen to be the one to get past a preliminary test to a final test Randi won't have the time to get a patent.

Gene

[ken_behrendt]

Gene wrote:

The way my friend puts it is 'a wheel that seeks balance thru motion.' I think that's what we're all looking for and I might be on the verge of it.

I like the sound of that...a gravity wheel seeks balance through motion...yes, has a nice ring to it and I quite agree. I might add that the gravity wheel "unceasingly" seeks balance through motion.


As far as the Randi prize is concerned, I do not think that I will apply for it even if I am successful in my attempts to replicate Bessler's invention. If I did, then some might interpet my motives for finding Bessler's secret as being purely financial ones.

Of course, if Randi found out about my discovery and insisted on giving me the megabuck prize, I'm not sure what I would do. I think I'd probably give the bulk of it to some charity to help them with humanitarian work around the world. An extra bit of money is not going to make that much difference in my life, but that money might help feed/shelter some victim of a natural disaster somewhere in the world. I'd rather know that some kid out there was getting a warm tent, fresh water, and a meal than that my investments got pumped up a little higher...


ken

[AgingYoung]

There has been talk on other threads as to the result of 'pinning' weight to a wheel. It seems like it's time to clear up this matter. For our existence gravity is a force that holds things down and also keeps things spinning (ie the earth around the sun, etc.) yet a fine point about gravity is that it's invisible. In a wheel everything that is fixed to the wheel is added by the axle (not axel). Those weights that are on one side cause forces that are added to the other side by the axle; the axle is the equal sign of the equation. Where those weights happen to be fixed to the wheel is of no consequence yet that point is the means or gravity that cause the axle to sum the forces. In the universe of your wheel gravity is visible; it's how the weights are attached. The result at the axle demonstrates Newton's 3rd law only if the weights are fixed. When the weights can move and specifically accelerate faster than the rotation of the wheel Newton's 3rd law is too simplistic to describe the result.

Gene

[Fletcher]

Gene .. most would agree that if you can get a weight to accelerate faster than that due gravity alone you would have some exciting possibilities.

Trouble is, it always takes (as far as I'm aware) external energy to provide the additional thrust to achieve this ?!

[AgingYoung]

Fletcher,

If the wheel isn't spinning at the rate of a free fall then the weight can be accelerated at the rate of a free fall and move faster than the wheel. When the weights can move independently of the axle and accelerate or decelerate they can change their moments. It's like time travel. By changing their moments they can change the effect that the the constant force or acceleration of gravity has on them (a pair of weights).

That's at the heart of why Newton's 3rd law is too simplistic. Newton's 3rd law considers actions and reactions that are in a sequence or that are linear. If you can cause a reaction to appear in a moment before it would actual be there (or effectively travel in time before or after the time it would be in that moment) you can create energy.

There are other ideas along these lines to think about but since I'm not dealing from a full deck I'd like to keep a few aces up my sleeve.

Gene

[Fletcher]

Fair enough Gene, good luck working out the lumps in your ideas.

Michael has talked b4 along the same lines re Newton's 3rd Law being sequential etc.

When a weight is independent of the axle & able to 'fall' due gravity, whilst it is falling it is not applying its weight, it's missing in action, until it reconnects with something, which has counter torque issues imo.

[ken_behrendt]

I think you fellows are making way too much of this business of a weight "falling" inside of a rotating wheel. When it comes to Bessler's wheels, I do not think in terms of a falling weight, but rather in terms of a shifting weight. And, at no time is a weight actually in a state of free fall. It is always connected by several constraints to the frame of the wheel. The constraint might be a lever and its pivot, a spring, or a rope. Consequently, I keep my focus on the locations of the weights and how this affects their composite CG. Ultimately, it is the location of that CG that will determine if the wheel is capable of continuous rotation.


ken

[Michael]

I never said anything about a falling weight Ken.

[ken_behrendt]

Michael...

I never said that you did, but I noticed the following by other posters here:

Gene wrote:

If the wheel isn't spinning at the rate of a free fall then the weight can be accelerated at the rate of a free fall and move faster than the wheel.

Fletcher wrote:

When a weight is independent of the axle & able to 'fall' due gravity, whilst it is falling it is not applying its weight, it's missing in action, until it reconnects with something, which has counter torque issues imo.

Again, I can only reiterate that there is no need for a weight to free fall within a gravity wheel. I think a lot of Bessler researchers may be assuming that that happened because of the noises that issued from Bessler's wheels. But, there are other ways of accounting for those sounds without introducing the idea of free falling weights.


ken

[winkle]

If the wheel isn't spinning at the rate of a free fall then the weight can be accelerated at the rate of a free fall and move faster than the wheel.

the first hint in Bessler's Apologia Poetica (Greed is an evil root.)fits nicely with you're post and the first part of Fletcher's post

don't use everything to turn the wheel

hold some back for other uses

not talking about free fall just a little less than gravity speed

might be used to wind a big clock spring to move a weight early or some other foolishness like that

[AgingYoung]

Fletcher,

I recall someone (maybe Michael) mentioning something about a weight 'missing in action'. I just tried to search for it but couldn't find it. I know that sometimes Mike replaces posts with 'edit'. :) A free falling mass moving faster than the wheel is one way to get it to be in a stronger moment before it would get there if it had rode around the wheel. There's an other more novel way to increase the force than that acceleration.

I think that all the time the various weights in a wheel are directly connected to the axle that the axle instantaneously balances all possible forces. The reason that the average torque of a mass falling from zero degrees to 180 is 63.6% is because the lesser effort the degrees before 30 and after 150 drag that average down. If you exclude those forces the average is 71.85% (for about a 13% increase). It's kind of like having a D mess up your average and working like crazy to get some A's to bring your average back up. One way to exclude those " D's " is to accelerate past them. If you merely shift the weights on a wheel and the axle can equalize both sides of the wheel Newton's 3rd law is an accurate assessment of what will happen.

Thanks for the 'good luck'. I think I'm betting on something better than luck though. I do appreciate the kind thoughts.

Gene

[Michael]

I haven't taken any of the content I've put up away Gene, the edits had irrelevent material.

[AgingYoung]

Michael,
Could be but at times the only thing left is the word 'edit.'

Recent randi post.

Gene

[AgingYoung]

Extra, extra, read all about it. More recent randi post. If you enjoy the ideas please send Scott a little donation. When I win the randi I'm going to buy him a new server but if you beat me to it I'd appreciate it if you would. I'm sure he would too.

Gene