The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

[raj]

My dear Marchello,
You still haven't seen what I am showing you.
You are looking with your eyes. It is a static picture. Just see It in in front of you in your mind.

The wheel on the left in the second drawing with its axle in red is Fixed to the stand and should stay there.


The wheel on the right in the second drawing with its axle is Hanging in the air in the vertical opening in the new stand and should fall/slide down to the foot of the stand.

Now imagine this wheel connected to the two pendulums as in drawing 4, what would happen?
It will hang on the pendulum at its lowest point at the 6 o' clock point.

And then what would happen? ...and then?...and then on and on...

In other words the wheel will rotate, hanging on one of the two swinging pendulums ALTERNATELY, as a trapeze artist.

Raj

[Fcdriver]

Static picture, now what happens as rpm's increase? What is the maximum rpm? How do you deal with the ever changing timing of the change of direction? At what point are you loading the pendulum in both directions?

[ME]

Now imagine this wheel connected to the two pendulums as in drawing 4, what would happen?
It will hang on the pendulum at its lowest point at the 6 o' clock point.

And then what would happen?

As far as I can imagine, your latest pendulum-setup ideas work like a Roberval. The pendulums [6] remain offset from the center because of the static position [2] of the axle.
Without that reference I guess the system collapses. Decouple the axle [2], and the wheel [1] finds its lowest point, the axle [2] drags the pendulum-connection-points [5] down via the connector rods [8], thus the pendulum weights [6] drop down.
I guess (not sure) there's no smooth rotation on the wheel, but in the best-case results in a hopping of the wheel dragging the pendulums along with it.

...and then?...

...and then it dissipates all its energy because at least one of the pendulum-connection-points [7,5,8,9,6] are likely vertically aligned with the axle [2] and locks up this system.

I don't see your trapeze artist. But I could, in some unlikely better-case-scenario, imaging the wheel to act as like a yo-yo when those pendulums do indeed provide a smooth rotation and speed up the wheel. Then the pendulums may go like a juggler but upside-down. I have to run to my simulator to verify such possibility...

Yet, I just suspect the wheel is more efficient when not hopping up-and-down.

(I don't know why I need to add this, but here's my disclaimer anyway)
My impressions could be wrong, as I only show my current understanding.
I think fanboying is an extremely useless exercise, and so is an "it doesn't work" reply.
Don't let it stop you from exploring your design though.

[raj]

just look

[Fcdriver]

Slightly moving the contact point, of the connecting rod, up and down, on the pendulum, changes the fulcrum, between lift and drop? This would allow for rpm increases and decreases, as well provide more drop than lift, force amounts.
It is the total center mass, of the combined total, being moved the right of the axle, that causes rotation. If the combined total mass remains at center, as rpm increase, there is no net gain.

[Fcdriver]

The wheel and weight relationship is that all becomes balanced while spinning, this does not compare to static balance.
You have to set balance to happen at a set rpm. A wheel seeking balance while moving, not standing still.

[raj]

Just keep looking.

The wheel axle and bearings will stay in a fix position, cannot swing/move sideways because it is restricted by the new stand and cannot move or slide downwards because it is tethered to the pendulums.

How I wish I could build a concept testing prototype.

Raj

[ME]

But when your wheel is in either the left or right position, then that wheel plus the pendulums would just drop. Perhaps I could make an animation of what I think could happen when it's in the middle position.

[raj]

I am telling what would the motion be, as I visualise it in my mind. The actual proof will be in a physical model.

The whole wheel mass hangs on the two pendulums. Therefore it cannot drop to a lower position.

The wheel will rotate because the combined COM of the whole wheel and the pendulums bobs/weight will be one side.

As the wheel rotates, it will hang for a fleeting moment on just one pendulum at this unstable equilibrium at 6 o'clock position and at this moment, only the wheel mass, in its attempt to topple towards the descending side, will cause the resetting of the pendulums.

Remember. In the AMW concept, the pendulums use ratchet bearings on their pivot point on the stands. Therefore they can swing only down to the 6 o'clock
position and swing back from there.

Raj

[raj]

@Marchello.

You are absolutely right.
The wheel will fall down and stay there.

The wheel axle must be on fixed to stands.

Raj

[ME]

And that's also absolute unfortunate... the floating axis was your latest thinking-outside-the-box-secret.
When you can't move the weights around the wheel, then perhaps (also) move the wheel around the weights.
And/Or: When the wheel can't hold the weights, then perhaps (also) let the weights hold the wheel.

[raj]

Foolish show of sarcastic mastery welcomed!

Raj

[rlortie]

@Marchello.

You are absolutely right.
The wheel will fall down and stay there.

The wheel axle must be on fixed to stands. Raj

IIRC it was written that Bessler's axle was supported by tapered pins 3/4" in diameter. They set upon and within a half circle groove cut or routed into the pillar or stanchion.

If so, then any sideways motion would change the circumference of the bearing causing it to climb within its half circle groove, it would then slide to the other side repeating the process. This would give the same reaction of a "Off center" axis that is forever changing.

Ralph

[raj]

Thank you Ralph.

This is what I am trying to find out for myself.

I am still hanging on to my AMW concept. I am not giving up on this just yet.

I am not trying to build a working wheel. I know I can't do it myself.

I am only trying to get some positive sign that it may work.

Raj

[raj]

I was too hasty to conclude that the wheel will FALL DOWN and stay there.

HOPES are still alive for a wheel with FLOATING axle.

Raj