Georg Künstler's Ideas...

[jonnynet]

Georg,
thank you for the hint. I'll take back my comment about "demonstrative fraud" and check the wheel once more.

[jim_mich]

Georg,
Have you tested the output of your wheel? Or is it not strong enough to keep turning?

A couple years ago I posted how to make a prony brake to measure the output of any working wheel. I'm sure you're capable of constructing such a simple device to test the output of your wheel. Assuming that your wheel works then I'm sure you'd like to tell us about it's output power.

[rlortie]

The rotating massive cylinder in the middle of the wheel has a diameter of 9 cm and a high of 10 cm.

I can appreciate the fact that Georg is in Germany where the metric system is standard. Unfortunately I have never attempted to learn it.
I was taught inches and feet. My school days ended long before the conversion to metric system was attempted and failed.

Now can some one explain to me how a 9 cm diameter wheel can stand 10 cm high, and what is that in inches, please!

Ralph

[jim_mich]

To convert mm to inches divide by 25.4
To convert cm to inches divide by 2.54
To convert m to inches divide by 0.0254

9 cm equals 3.542 inches.
10 cm equals 3.937 inches.

[Fletcher]

approx 2.5 cm's per inch Ralph.

[Jetrix]

for f's sake Georg... Stop making fun of us!

[Sevich]

Don't be so supprised by georg's actions, or should I say, in-actions

I read somewhere that humanity is a form of illness. I guess georg is playing his greatest as a small cog in a wider wheel

I have a personal reminder sitting on my garage floor...(it's like I see a vision of georg running like a little school boy behind a tree with one hand over his mouth giggling to himself as he points a finger at this forum and singing......... "I know the secret ha ha ha ha")

On a wider note.......I move a motion to have George banned from this forum.

I'd give my vote if there was a poll

[rlortie]

Jim and Fletch,

Thank you for setting me straight,

So I assume that the statement;

The rotating massive cylinder in the middle of the wheel has a diameter of 9 cm and a high of 10 cm.

is a typo error, 9 cm in diameter and 10 cm wide, not high. The difference between 9 and 10 cm being .395" or just a little over 25/64" Or Georg is having a small English problem with his description.

Why was this important to me? First was the diameter/hight thing. Second, I wanted to know the weights mass dimensional ratio.

Ralph

[Wheeler]

Seems like too much fun to just say stop posting to Georg.

He has no working wheel, but he is working with the most extreme level of pendulum physics.
He seems to want to find the point of a weight that will rock over it's centerline as it is at the point of fight or flight. (back or forth change)

In other words he may be seeking through his large diameter wheel an interference from weight movement. the weight is caused to move over the dowel by the mathematical timing of his weight and wheel size.

Possibly the rocking action of motions cause in his words a (trouble force) or slight collision.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Ralph,
I could also make it 10 to 10 or 9 to 9, that doesn't make any difference, as long the weight is the same.


To all,
the cylinder is made from steel. So depending on the given size you can calculate the weight in kg or pounds.

The essential things are : in which high in the hole is the massive cylinder rolling, and how many dowels do we have.

As more dowels we have, as easier the wheel with the hole will swing, tilt. The distance from one dowel to another is like a triangel with a long or a short basis.

A stopping attempt of the hole wheel, doesn't stop the movement of the rolling cylinder.

That's what I explained a long time ago, parasitic oscillation. In my eyes the rolling cylinder is the parasit, it still moves on, when the hole wheel tries to stop, and therefore, this parasit is breaking the symmetry.

This parasit can work with or against the current move. We can have an increase or a decrease of our oscillation.

I am currently loading the video's to video.google.com as Rainer suggested. When I have finished the upload I will pass you the link.




the future has begun


Georg

[ken_behrendt]

Georg...

I've been having another bout of insomnia and decided to attempt making a WM2D model of your latest wheel which you claim rotates continuously. That model is attached below.

I used all of the dimensions in meters and centimeters that you gave, but I had to estimate the diameter of the 80 dowels and the weights of the three parts: the outer wheel, inner wheel, and the rolling steel weight. I gave the dowels a diameter of 2 cm, the outer wheel a weight of 3 kg, the inner wheel a weight of 2 kg, and the steel weight a weight of 5 kg. The air resistance in my model was set to "low".

Well, it took over an hour for the WM2D program to produce 3 seconds of simulated motion! And as can be seen by the graph of the rotational velocity of the outer wheel vs. time, the model appears to have stalled and begun to oscillate about an equilibrium position.

There was, however, a problem that developed with my model. In order to keep the steel weight inside of the white "hole" of the center wheel, I had to use an open center polygon ring that was attached to the circle from which the center ring was made.

I noticed that after about 1 second of simulation, that glitch involving circle in contact with polygons showed up and made the metal weight begin spinning CCW which then also tended to make the central wheel spin CCW. However, all other motions of the metal weight and the center wheel appeared normal.

So, unfortunately, I am not able to tell with this simulation whether or not you have a working design...maybe you do!

I think this is a case where I would personally have to see your device in operation or hear or read a report from someone I trust that it worked. I'm not suggesting that you are lying about your wheel's operation, because I do not know you personally, but, whenever such a claim is made, it is nice to have some sort of independent verification of the claim by someone other than the inventor.

In any event, I wish you well with the device...



ken

[LustInBlack]

Georg:


Oh I think I understand how your wheel is working . . .

Like you said, your inner wheel will always try to "fall" between two dowels, since it cannot reside on a tiny dowel, so a minor push of the wheel is necessary to start it .

Then, the inner wheel, between two dowel will rotate MORE SLOWLY in the direction of the
bigger wheel, by doing so, it will try to remain at the left of the wheel, if the direction is CW, at the same time, the metal cylinder will stay in the center
of it's hole to balance itself, causing oscillations, by doing so,the inner wheel will finally fall to the next set of dowels, the speed will change, the rotor will react by trying to fall to the right of the wheel, increasing speed, falling to dowels .. I and believe the cycle repeat.

Brilliant !

[ken_behrendt]

LIB...

The problem I see with Georg's design (which type I refer to as "Wall Climbing Wheels") is that, after the center wheel "falls" over to the right of the outer wheel's axle and lands between a fresh pair of adjacent dowels, the outer wheel will respond by rotating CW. This action will cause both the center wheel and the steel rolling weight inside of it to also drop as they move to the left along with the outer wheel.

In order for the center wheel to again fall over onto the next pair of adjacent dowels to the right of the outer wheels axle, the steel weight must roll uphill inside of its circular chamber within the center wheel. Now, where is the energy supposed to come from for the steel weight to roll up the right side of its chamber inside of the center wheel?

I suspect that IF this wheel of Georg's does, in fact, work, then it would have to produce a very tiny amount of torque. I do not think that it would be able to do any substantial amount of work other than overcoming ir resistance and rolling friction to keep itself in motion.


ken

[Thomas]

Ken,

Shouldn't we be taking this one step at a time? I would be more than happy to have a wheel that turned on it's own, even if it produced just enough power to only do that. It would present an opportunity for learning, regardless of the power output.

I personally have no opinion regarding this wheel design at this time because I haven't had the time to evaluate it or other possible variations of the design.

Tom

[ken_behrendt]

Tom...

Yes, finding any type of device that was "self-motive" would be a huge breakthrough. Initially, we need not be concerned with its power output or speed of operation. Once we understand the mechanism and what is limiting it, we can go on to find remedies for these problems.

IF Georg's wheel does, in fact, work, then it would be a breakthrough and worthy of worldwide attention. The problem is that he claims it does and, currently, there is no way for this board to verify that claim. Perhaps in the future, it will be possible for this board, via donations, to send someone local to visit someone claiming to have achieved OU/PM in order to verify the claim. That trusted investigator could then report back to the rest of us exactly what he saw...if anything.



ken