Another claim to a working device...

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Tarsier79
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Tarsier79 »

I have experienced many times that before I have managed to source all materials for my intended model I have come to concussion that it would be waist of time, because a better way of building an "improved model" became apparent to me.
As result I have so many unused parts that I am running out of space.
Exactly. You aren't about to mortgage the house for a build untill you at least get something that works.

Alternatively, If you are RARenergy, you spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars building something on enormous scale that doesn't work, then think "what else can we try?"
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Furcurequs »

Yep, their thing is certainly more expensive than my tongue depressor, poster board, penny and wire nail design. If I need to make modifications to it, I just slice off an old part and glue on a new one. Heck, even if I were to sell my car, I don't know that I could afford even a single I-beam these days.

In that I am exploring a specific hypothetical principle of my own, though, their thing is like a big Rorschach test for me. With all those bits and pieces, it's like, "Wait! Maybe my ideas are hidden in that gigantic thing somewhere. ...hmmmm... Maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt. ...for my own sake. Wait again! No! That would mean that they have beaten me to it." ...lol

Anyway, I do see a lot of negatives with this thing, especially in that they apparently claim to have smaller working prototypes, too.

If they actually did have working prototypes, then why haven't they gone public with those? They could have already been a worldwide sensation and the physics community would be scratching their heads trying to explain how it works. The patent examiners would have already been looking at it, too, most likely.

They could also be making deals with major corporations and manufacturers already as they attempt to profit from their idea, while also bringing real scientists and engineers into the mix to better understand the principle and develop more economical and efficient designs that could be quickly mass produced.

They would have also probably tried to use fewer and broader claims in their patent applications so as to try to cover more potential working mechanisms.

I've not looked over the patents enough yet to know exactly what they are trying to do, but when speaking of the prototype and tests, the inventor seems to mention force and torque measurements at various positions but not energy and power measurements. This hints that he may have only done static tests rather than dynamic ones and so the 30 kw figure he speaks of for the big machine may be nothing more than a pipe dream of his.

(That reminded me of the static force tests those Steorn folks were doing with their alleged energy device.)

I will probably look at the RAR patents more closely later, though, just out of my own curiosity.

Oh, over at overunity.com there may already be a guy on the case when it comes to an attempted replication. Here's the link for that. He's using his Meccano set apparently.

http://www.overunity.com/13480/big-try- ... msg376425/

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Post by AB Hammer »

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130256066

Gives a better understanding of the design in this patent link
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Unbalanced »

Thank you Alan, furquriqus and Azimuthe for the patent links
The value of the force of gravity that arrives at the central shaft is 100% greater, or two times greater than the force of gravity existing on the weight.
This part of his description alone should get all the examiner's red flags waving. What does this mean? That because of mechanical advantage the force of gravity is increased two fold?

That he writes of "locks" and "arc locks" as though they were an intragal part of this machine and yet they do not show up in the illustrations is significant. I believe these are the two different types of hooking mechanisms that show up in his later photographs, posted on the website.

If this devise ran just as it appears in the illustrations, those big weights must have been flailing around horribly.

Other than the ever-present crane tension, I see no other means of stopping this thing if it actually wanted to run. This seems like an awfully stupid means of stopping it.

I can just imagine bolting on that last piece and having the wrench ripped from your hand as she started to roll then having to lasso the arms with a crane to shut this puppy down.
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by rlortie »

Hello Curtis,

You wrote: "That he writes of "locks" and "arc locks" as though they were an intragal part of this machine and yet they do not show up in the illustrations".

If you go back to the earlier stages of construction you will find where I brought to attention the serrated inner face of the crank throws.

I could not come up for a reason for this additional time and expenditure of the installation. This is where you may find your locks and arc locks.

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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Unbalanced »

The serrated inner faces on those cranks are inexplicable to me as well but I don't believe they have anything to do with these locks and arc-locks mentioned in the application.

In the photo below I have placed arrows pointing to what I believe he is referring to as locks.

It seems as though these locks or hooks engage the weighted arm at intervals
this lock (10) will be placed and removed at the convenient time and period and, therefore, the force of gravity will be transferred through the blue bar to the crankshaft arm, which will generate a torque force on its shaft, and the lock will be placed connected to the arc-locks (9) at the convenient place, being driven or removed by a mechanical system, which will be driven by the passing of the assembly through a fixed point of the structure (2).
It's confusing to me because just before the description, he refers to an arc of locks as though the only arcs that appear in the photos, contained a multitude of "locks."
where a weight exists (8) connected to a weight support bar (3) and to an arc (9) of locks (10), and this part, in turn, transfers the existing force of gravity to a central shaft (13), with a higher or lower intensity depending on where the lock is supported
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Unbalanced »

The part that really baffles me is, if these hooks are what he refers to as "locks," they only make contact when the weighted arm is moving upwards which to my way of thinking is completely counter-intuitive. I would have assumed that the weighted arms were more directly connected to the crankshaft when they were on their down swing.

I suppose these are all pointless assumptions on my part until such time as we have been offered proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that this thing actually does run on its own and we are given a more thorough explanation of just how it functions.
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by rlortie »

Due to the lack of ability for sex and failing eyesight, I believe at least two of your arrows are pointing to "pawls".

They hook something coming down but are pushed in when going up over something or something coming down can bypass them.

To be truthful Curtis I really am not following this thread with interest.

For one, that crane in the background that has not moved since who knows when, IMO cannot be holding up that much iron at the boom angle it is set at. Even with the outriggers it would be overloaded unless it is somehow tied down.

There is no way I would ever attempt to duplicate it, so I just set back and wait for the final outcome.

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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by daxwc »

Looks more like some kind of government tax write-off scheme linked to co2 deduction. Just a wild guess on my part, probably not the case, but you never know.
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by helloha »

the wm2d version of rarEnergia (a simple edition),
have fun playing around with it
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by rlortie »

Quote:
The value of the force of gravity that arrives at the central shaft is 100% greater, or two times greater than the force of gravity existing on the weight.
duh! Set the weight on the shaft and it exhibits X pounds, adding only moment stress on the shaft, add an appendage to the shaft (lever) and hang the weight on it. Make the lever longer later so you can write another patent. For surely it will gain in foot pounds of torque.

helloha,

Nice simulations, but you forgot all the bells and whistles, not to mention the toilet paper strung across the bottom.
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by helloha »

Ralph

there are alot of version of rarEnergia, i only choose the original and most simplest of those.... i'm a lazybone..... also i have absolutely no ideas what those parts are for, maybe in near future then i will add the extras

cheers
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by Unbalanced »

Hello Helloha,

I sure wish I had W2MD and the knowledge to run it. I do not. I am curious to know what you discover playing around with this and hope that you'll share it with us.

I believe that you would have to incorporate eight articulating mechanisms with each crank set at 45 degrees one from the other in order to give this devise an accurate simulation. 45 degrees x 8 = 360
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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by iacob alex »

.....this time , as a compact , small size "counterclaim" vs. Brazil's (Rar-energia } big size , at :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzsqU8YG_iY

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re: Another claim to a working device...

Post by justsomeone »

That sure looks like a friction nightmare Alex.
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
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