Flippin' Flywheels

[ME]

I was never taught anything about it in physics classes and neither was anyone else so basically I'm starting from scratch.

So I am very sorry that's not good enough for you!

Sincerely, you only get my compliments for your attempt !
I'm just not convinced Grimer's theory (or whatever it is) is good for you (or anyone); you seem to agree with that.

Added summary

• Hence I continuously ask Grimer for his intrusions and branding of EG and 3rd derivative energy.
  To be clear: I have no issues with you nor with your explanation of "jerk" (that explanation "change in acceleration" is as good as it gets).

- - - - - - -

And if Frank chooses to spend his time theorizing about how this idea could be justified in advance of any physical evidence, that's for him to decide.

And that's the issue.
For what I'm reading you just take over those random ideas while it's obvious you can do perfectly without them (as seen from your workshop photo's for example).

I continuously direct the specific question to Frank/Grimer to explain what he means: He's not able to explain and still talk-talk-talks around the issue (he calls it "smart" for some reason).
I think it's obvious that I was able to bring some order in Frank's own chaos: [link], it apparently doesn't take much to rearange. Perhaps you didn't notice, but he abandoned that 3rd derivative energy idea, ran away, and found himself some new nonsense.

In the meantime, finding any math that has been developed to show how that energy is utilized / produced is very difficult.

Yes? That's my whole point !?
So you can not claim you have found "3rd derivative energy" when you don't even know what it should be. Sorry, but the claim of being "difficulty" does not make it truth.

We can simply concluded from all this that Frank/Grimer simply doesn't know... and (for yet another unknown reason) you depend on this guy, so you don't know either.
Perhaps I shouldn't care...


I would be happy to explain what kind of math is involved and point-out several situation where Frank/Grimer likely got confused; but I would rob him from his own challenge.

I'll just finish-up with the revelation that, contrary to the nonsense beliefs of Grimer, this "Jerk" you talked about yourself works perfectly fine in just a single dimension and is totally independent of ones occupation. So yes you are correct in stating that "jerk" can be simulated, just like "shock" and even higher derivatives...
...and mind here that this talk about "jerk" (as being a third-derivative of position) is of an entirely different order of complexity what Grimer tried to put on his "third-derivative energy" plate.

[Grimer]

KCACO :-)

[ME]

Oh, don't worry Grimer..... :-)

• LOL, that poster is actually hilarious !
  I think you've managed to find the 2nd derivative:

Keep Calm and Carry On was a motivational poster produced by the British government in 1939 in preparation for the Second World War.
The poster was intended to raise the morale of the British public, threatened with widely predicted mass air attacks on major cities.
Although 2.45 million copies were printed, and although the Blitz did in fact take place, the poster was hardly ever publicly displayed and was little known until a copy was rediscovered in 2000 at Barter Books, a bookshop in Alnwick.
It has since been re-issued by a number of private companies, and has been used as the decorative theme for a range of products

• For its original intended seriousness: Some history, behind that poster.

Anyway, if you really want me to continue...

[WaltzCee]

I think the 3rd derivative is a mathematical description. Its quantity is a function of its cause. Vary the cause and you vary it. Eliminate its cause and it goes away. It's nothing to be harvested. I don't think you could use it to cause itself and produce a gain. Third derivative is not a seed. But as the polymath often said, "prove me wrong".

I also think it's useful to use accepted terms. Speaking the same language benefits communication.

I mostly just posted to let everyone know I'm still kicking. :p This bull market is bumping!!

[ovyyus]

Hence I continuously ask Grimer for his intrusions and branding of EG and 3rd derivative energy.

Branding is ownership. Cattle beware :-)

[Grimer]

Good point Bill. :-)

Perhaps I should trade mark 3rd derivative Energy and Ersatz Gravity.© ..;-)

[Art]

I mostly just posted to let everyone know I'm still kicking. :p This bull market is bumping!!

Yep I havn't forgotten that you predicted before Trump was a president that "if he were elected " (IIRC) that the market would take off !

Well done !

Hope you're making hay ! : )

[ME]

Perhaps I should trade mark 3rd derivative Energy and Ersatz Gravity.© ..;-)

Grimer, perhaps you should indeed ... !
Then it still needs to be clearly defined, because how would we otherwise know it's been infringed ??

Perhaps, in the mean time, I'll just start using "Ersatz !!" as an exclamation of nonsense, just like the old-English usage of "hogwash !" or "humbug !".
Seems to me the most fitting use of such word.

Let's try it out on some random stuff:

• Frank does not intrude threads with total irrelevant nonsense? - Ersatz !!
• Changing acceleration can't be done in less than two dimensions? - Ersatz !!
• There's nothing in Physics describing something being "per Kelvin" ? - Ersatz !!
• I organized Frank's ideas so now he can explain 3rd derivative energy? - Ersatz !!
• My simulator sporadically varies the energy-sum (KE+PE) on pendulums? - Ersatz !!
• Fletcher is as guilty as the next guy? - Ersatz !!
• Furcurequs likes nerdy compliments? - . . .

And so this clearly demonstrated the gravity of using that word "Ersatz"... or in short: Ersatz gravity :-)

[Grimer]

I think you should have a lie down, Marcello. :-)

[ME]

Oh no, don't worry there. This IS my relaxed state: I'm perfectly fine ...
Thank you for your concern though.

[Furcurequs]

• Furcurequs likes nerdy compliments? - . . .

Well, maybe not when I receive them in some social settings where attractive non-nerdy women can overhear, but when in professional environments or even ersatz professional environments like this one... ...definitely!

[ovyyus]

Perhaps I should trade mark 3rd derivative Energy and Ersatz Gravity.© ..;-)

ftp* does not require ©

It might worry any trail blazing steer to find some lilley-white ersatz cowboy sneaking up behind him with a branding iron ;-)

* first to publish

[daanopperman]

@Grimer ,

I think it is possible to harvest 2x the kinetic energy from a single mass with the aid of jerk wrt a mass just coming to a stop .

[cloud camper]

Whip it good!

We are all aware that one can move a lot of static inertia by a simple whipping action. Not only for removing bearings but for pulling railroad spikes out of tree stumps! - Ralph Lortie

Whip it song by Devo

https://youtu.be/j_QLzthSkfM

[ME]

Luckily we all appreciate the involved mathematics so we know exactly what it takes and how much energy is gained.
Please remember the related lower derivative (rephrased in a similar style):


Lever it good!
We are all aware that one can move the whole world by using a simple lever - Archimedes

Please avoid the following injury named "lever song":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCP2kpTR4Vc