Part Three is the Charm

[Leafy]

What we want for others is what we want for ourselves.

Best,

[Tarsier79]

I know you mobilists have reservations about ??theOne$$ with the flying weights. Why? It's your Fear of Flight

There is no fear, just as there are no reservations.

No, I don't like your new wheel.

[Fletcher]

Hey mryy .. my 2 cents, a general observation.

We all tend to suffer from the same frustrations - we may have a narrative and try to fit the facts to that narrative - when it should be the other way around - establish the facts and build a narrative around that.

But facts are in short supply making truth and accuracy difficult.

Whichever way we approach it .. non-tethered designs .. gravity-only .. breaking the Law of Levers .. some exotic energy source .. there will never be wholesale buy-in to any one or one persons concept for mechanical free-energy. The best you can do is share what you can and perhaps a few will come along with you on the journey and a light go on for them.

Ultimately, each and every one of us has to do the physical experiments to back up our "beliefs". And fold them into a Proof Of Principle (POP) machine.

Only then can any of us be 100% confident that we have a runner, and even then some would argue it wasn't B's. lol.

The ABC of crime solving applies here ..

Assume nothing .. Believe nothing .. Check everything.

That goes for your own ideas and when looking into anyone else's, imo.

Right now I believe you are the stage where you need to start the experiments to progress forward with your concepts. If your assumptions are incorrect you will find out soon enough and can correct them and move on with an improved idea. If they are correct then all well an good.

I am at the same stage fwiw.

P.S. as I get older I become more cynical about everything it seems. "Show us the sausage" was the go-to cry on OU.com many years ago. It was the final arbiter.

Best -f

[mryy]

Hey mryy .. my 2 cents, a general observation.

We all tend to suffer from the same frustrations - we may have a narrative and try to fit the facts to that narrative - when it should be the other way around - establish the facts and build a narrative around that.

But facts are in short supply making truth and accuracy difficult.

Whichever way we approach it .. non-tethered designs .. gravity-only .. breaking the Law of Levers .. some exotic energy source .. there will never be wholesale buy-in to any one or one persons concept for mechanical free-energy. The best you can do is share what you can and perhaps a few will come along with you on the journey and a light go on for them.

Ultimately, each and every one of us has to do the physical experiments to back up our "beliefs". And fold them into a Proof Of Principle (POP) machine.

Only then can any of us be 100% confident that we have a runner, and even then some would argue it wasn't B's. lol.

The ABC of crime solving applies here ..

Assume nothing .. Believe nothing .. Check everything.

That goes for your own ideas and when looking into anyone else's, imo.

Right now I believe you are the stage where you need to start the experiments to progress forward with your concepts. If your assumptions are incorrect you will find out soon enough and can correct them and move on with an improved idea. If they are correct then all well an good.

I am at the same stage fwiw.

P.S. as I get older I become more cynical about everything it seems. "Show us the sausage" was the go-to cry on OU.com many years ago. It was the final arbiter.

Best -f

Absolutely Fletcher. At the present moment I'm not in a rush to build. I actually quite enjoy exploring various ideas and I am sharing them here. Thank you all for your input. I am new to PM so I think at this stage my mind is fresh and open toward the concept and I want to take full advantage of this mental "newness". My own personal experience tells me that once I start rolling up the sleeves I am likely to become entrenched and that freshness will wear off. I can then look back at the ideas during that initial exposure from which I may draw inspiration. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[Fletcher]

Good for you .. you have a good attitude and willingness to help others, and to contribute to discussions etc .. I think the "process" we all go thru is about managing expectations - the Goldilocks zone - not to high and not to low.

Being objective and never take anything as personal nor giving it the same way.

ATEOTD this is a journey for all of us, one many want to see end successfully. In the meantime the forum can be an excellent sounding board and company even if we have different points of view on many things.

[ovyyus]

At this point I acknowledge again that I could be wrong about my device and its capabilities. I haven't built it as yet, and simmed some parts of it. My current optimism may turn out to be entirely misplaced. However I consider myself reasonably balanced, with a reasonable knowledge of B. and his wheels, and some experience in simming and building behind me. I don't get fooled by a device too often but it does happen. Fortunately my mind-sim is still working fine but it doesn't always have to adhere to the rules of physics (mostly it does), as we all know too well ;7)

Good luck as always. Being able to define a real energy source is rare in the pm world. If you succeed, you'll definitely get kicked out of the club :P

[mryy]

Here's a design that could make Landgrave Karl blush. It consists of long weighted levers evenly spaced around and near the axle. One side of each lever's fulcrum has a short launch arm that folds over to the other side at an angle. It is *lightly* held at that angle with catch tabs (or even small magnets) and flips out easily when the red weight rolls over it. The levers sorta resemble an elongated "J" in their folded state. Pull cords connect the levers together at their ends.

At 3:00 the lever (hopefully) swings down hard striking the rim stop. This causes the extended launch arm holding the red weight to eject the weight up and over to the lever above it. Weight lands and rolls down flipping open the launch arm of the 2:00 lever. Process repeats indefinitely keeping the red weight on the descending side or maintaining preponderance as B. would say.

I placed cover disks on both sides of the wheel to keep the secret mechanism hidden. Hope you like...

Select Quote:

"Is there such a thing in nature as perpetual motion, or a perpetuum mobile? Is it possible for human hands to introduce into material bodies, in themselves lifeless, a permanent innate motive force, a constant interchange of rise and fall in all of its parts, of excess and deficient weight? Imagine how a heavy material body, in defiance of its natural tendency to gravitate towards the center of the earth, could be induced to rise once more. The world should see this principle, in itself so simple, and yet at the same time so deeply hidden, of everlasting motion. My invention is not fanciful. After I have gone public, you'll hear them say: Just look at the thing and you'll see that there isn't much artistry to it." Collins

[mryy]

Another version of ??OJ$$ with fewer moving parts. Unfortunately levers not looking like a "J" alphabet. The launch action happens between 3:00 and 4:00. You likey?

[Fletcher]

I like the simplicity mryy .. just a note of caution having made hundreds of sims (and a few builds) of various MT9 group etc. The levers do not stand upright as you have drawn and as B. shows in MT. That is the absolute best case scenario with a giant helping hand from Cf's imo. The downgoing lever-weights (lws) cannot pull the following lw upright until it is well over tdc. This stuffs up the torque calcs for the system, imo.

FWIW I did get them to perform much quicker and better by making additions to the lws - I included a short cross member on the lever at right angles and attached the ropes at the end of these. IOW's the angle of the pull was changed to help the required lift.

[mryy]

I like the simplicity mryy .. just a note of caution having made hundreds of sims (and a few builds) of various MT9 group etc. The levers do not stand upright as you have drawn and as B. shows in MT. That is the absolute best case scenario with a giant helping hand from Cf's imo. The downgoing lever-weights (lws) cannot pull the following lw upright until it is well over tdc. This stuffs up the torque calcs for the system, imo.

FWIW I did get them to perform much quicker and better by making additions to the lws - I included a short cross member on the lever at right angles and attached the ropes at the end of these. IOW's the angle of the pull was changed to help the required lift.

Diagram not drawn to accuracy (as usual). I ran a head "sim" previously and figured what you described could happen. Thanks for confirming. The cross member is a nice tip. I will add that to my next design. Thanks.

[mryy]

the ??O$$ (Future designs may use springs to facilitate 12:00 lever lift and 3:00 swing.)

[agor95]

As I did say I think B. was looking (as we all do) for mechanical means to reduce back-torque (i.e. asymmetric torque / mitigate back-torque / positive net torque / mechanically gain in momentum)

Well if you think about it torque created a 90 degrees to a wheel spoke and a Coriolis affect to create back torque not at 90 degrees would help.

Regards

[mryy]

In the ??O$$ you will notice that the levers cross each other inside the inner wheel ("grindstone") from 8:00 - 12:00. I uploaded two lever implementations permitting this intersecting, Config 1 being the preferred.

[mryy]

??O$$ concept incorporating (blue) double torsion spring with the bridged legs secured to the lever and free legs to the wheel framework. It will assist the lift of the 12:00 lever and accelerate its swing at 3:00. Hope you like ...

https://www.airedalesprings.co.uk/what- ... n-springs/

[mryy]

I wanted the weights on the ascending side to be closer to the axle, so that the center of gravity shifts farther out on the descending. I modified each lever and incorporated a bend that will go around the pivot of the lever below it. I reversed the position of the torsion spring so that the bridged legs are now secured to the wheel frame.

Did B. used two type of weights? I believe so. See his notes of MT 11 (Collins translation).