What's going on ??

[graham]

I started this thread because I was curious to find out why all those private forums were suddenly visible on the forum index page. I finally have an answer, thanks Scott.

I had decided to make the forums that are still open for membership applications visible, seemed reasonable.

Yes it's quite reasonable and I was surprised at all the ruffled feathers it caused.
Since they are so little used and are not accessible to non members I think it best that they remain hidden.

Graham

[ovyyus]

I couldn't help note this feeble attempt at the pot calling the kettle black. This tripe is rich.

On the matter of separating religion and science... religious fanatics (not to mention irreligious fanatics) will try to use science (or anything else) as a tool to aggressively dominate the belief's of others - BOOM! (take that you religious fanatics!). Science and religion should be separated because religious fanaticism (as dangerous a form of elitism as is irreligious fanaticism) can not be entrusted with the wellbeing of all people.

Gene

It is incorrect and lazy to quote someone and then change that quote for the purpose of pushing a personal agenda (in this case religious fanaticism) - the green words are Gene's, not mine.

Once again, this bigot makes my point for me.

[AgingYoung]

sure, here's your exact quote without the true sense pointed out:

On the matter of separating religion and science... religious fanatics will try to use science (or anything else) as a tool to aggressively dominate the belief's of others - BOOM!. Science and religion should be separated because religious fanaticism (a dangerous form of elitism) can not be entrusted with the wellbeing of all people.

Give an example of how that's occurred on this forum. Can you cite an example of this blarney or are you making things up so you can aggressively force your perspective on others?

You fanatically attempt to exclude God from everything yet not based on some perceived danger yet as a matter of personal choice. You imagine you can dictate to others the manner in which they express themselves. You are wrong. The history of science has a rich heritage of Christians who laid the foundation for what is today. You actually are the narrow minded one to want to exclude that perspective and deluded in imaging you can control the ideas and expression of others. I don't ever recall being so bigoted as to tell someone they had no right to express themselves in whatever terms they choose. Clearly you have, kettle.

Gene

ps edit: you go, groupie.

[rlortie]

Gene,

I am a believer and will express my views.

I am a believer in God, what is referred to here as a religious fanatic is what I call a Bible Thumper. If I want the Jehovah witness, The seventh day advent or any religion banging on my front door, I will invite them.

They are so spiritual hyped up that they feel ordained by God to press their beliefs down your throat. I can believe on my own without some one forcing their will upon me by wishing to preach about God with every subject that arises. Religious Fanaticism is not the same as being a believer while conducting scientific research.

I believe you will admit that their are more Bible Thumper's out there than Atheist thumpers. Which of course is good, other wise we would never progress.

You mentioned a few popular names of great minds who were believers. If they had been fanatics, I doubt if they would have found time to leave the foot print they did.

From a non-denominational member.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

It should also be remembered that early European scientists (which seem to be Gene's preference) were constantly struggling to conduct their research and studies free of the persecution and control of authoritarian religious fanatics.

Of course, it's a slightly different world today but we still find religious fanaticism constantly attempting to subvert open scientific enquiry and control what will be researched and taught. They try to turn every occasion into some sort of prayer meeting designed to reinforce their own brand of belief upon everyone.

[rlortie]

quote from JB Wheeler:

This forum has not been public as it pretends, it has been a toy for those who want a club.

Yes it sure has, everything from fantasy sea voyages to uncharted islands. Under the pretense of being tested on a design that never made it back to shore. Now that is what I call an amusing toy! In my youth we had a club called the "Micky Mouse Club" it also was for those who wanted a club.

If one were to stay on topic and hold religion in its place, forget the fantasy and stay on forum matter, it would not be a club, but a forum.

My interpretation for a forum is a public medium for discussion held within a tribunal manner. Each member can have the floor by starting their own thread and let it drift off topic as they see fit. But when you enter anothers thread with off topic posts, then you have violated tribunal procedure.

And then some wonder why there is a desire to have controlled conversation in a parliamentary manner.

Ralph

[AgingYoung]

Ralph,

You mentioned a few popular names of great minds who were believers. If they had been fanatics, I doubt if they would have found time to leave the foot print they did.

From what I understand Newton wrote more about church history than he did about any other thing. The point of religion and belief is being belabored though. My point is that a person has a right to express themselves in what ever terms they choose. It isn't anyone elses choice but that person. If you don't care to read someone you decide where to focus your eyes. You don't decide for a person how to think or what to say. Also, Ralph, I didn't just mention a few popular names. I mentioned some of the founders of modern disciplines of science.

Newton was a serious student of the Scriptures. But we are only now learning just how serious. The Newton Project has published, for the first time, a 300,000-word interpretation of the book of Revelation that Newton wrote in the late seventeenth century. In reporting on the released writings, Nature writer Geoff Brumfiel noted: “Newton’s religious writings constitute more than half of his entire written work” (2004, 430:819). In the past, many thought that Newton pursued religion only in his spare time, or that the majority of his religious work had been copied from others. But Iliffe [Robert Iliffe, a science historian at Imperial College in London—BH] claims that these writings show his theological work was carefully planned and often related to his work in mathematics and physics…. Ultimately, Newton’s religion and science may have been tied together by belief in absolute truth. Newton used testable hypotheses to find truth in nature, and believed that his religious writings revealed the truth about God, says Iliffe (p. 819).

I noticed Bill choose to avoid the direct question and rather decided to change the subject.

[ovyyus]

Questions from bigots are usually self-serving statements that do not lead to open discussion. Conversation with a bigot is generally pointless.

On a side note, Gene would probably have made a very good Clansman (yet another example of an elitist group of dangerous religious fanatic bigots). With his god in one hand and a noose in the other, all those inferior godless "Mop-Heads", as he calls them, would sure be put in there place, hey Gene? So many sinners, so little time - lol

[rlortie]

Gene,

Here is proof by your own hand that science and religion are compatable without being a fanatic about it.

you quoted: <Newton was a serious student of the Scriptures. But we are only now learning just how serious.>

Which to me means that he was not a fanatic about it other wise we would have known from from his own mouth. He did not get serious with the scriptures until after he had already made a contribution to science.
The fact is, that even then it was not public knowledge proves he was not a fanatic.

If you wish to reply please do so in the proper thread in "off Topic" this is my last post about religion in this thread meant for private forum debate.

Ralph

[AgingYoung]

It was a different time, Ralph, and an expression of faith wasn't considered the offense it is today. Never mind that it's offensive to have someone attempt to define your thoughts and expression. That's quite offensive.

Bill,

Questions from bigots are usually self-serving statements that do not lead to open discussion. Conversation with a bigot is generally pointless.

On a side note, Gene would probably have made a very good Clansman

Most excellent points of ad hominem. I was also wondering why you weren't answering. Thanks for pointing out the pointlessness of asking you a question. I admit it isn't fair to have a match of wits with you considering you're 1/2 armed.

Gene

ps edit: A little while ago you mentioned you'd ignore me. Thanks for demonstrating what your word is worth.

[fAtnhapy]

I'm too new here to get involved in this sort of disscussion. Heck I just got a booger on my rec bar but I expect it's hanging by a thread so I can't afford to piss anyone off but that last posts reminded me of the passage in the Bible where Jesus called this guy a half wit. Can't remember where I saw it though, maybe you can help me. Was it in Matthew or Luke?
fAt

[ovyyus]

It might have been in Gene - lol

[Patrick]

I bet if Ovvyus and Agingyoung ever met in an outback bar somewhere, they would get along swell... just like long lost war buddies.....then they would get drunk and punch each others lights out.

I find amazing, of all the zillions of web surfers out there, there are only about 325 members of besslerwheel.com and probably 90% of those don't visit regularly. I think if a working wheel design was posted to the board, you wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Whether in a private forum or not, this is already a very small 'club' of odd enthusiasts.

[scott]

How lovely!

HIDDEN + EXCLUSIVE = ELITIST!

I notice in the discussion string that those who are all for the latest outrage on right, are it's members and moderators! I saw the membership list, and it is the same bunch of usual suspects - the original founder-gang of heavy weights!

FIRST, we have the big guy in the sky excommunicated from discussions [now we just KNOW that Bessler would have loved this one!], and now what do we see but THIS scourge of cheeky elitism breaking out, so . . . what comes NEXT? Fair question? Unaided, the mind virtually reels at the possibilities.

This a 'democratic forum'? Apparently not. The stench of elitism is unmistakable.

James

They are saying we are better than all others and if they had any respect, they could of just e-mailed each other, but by posting on forum they are saying We want everyone to know we are it and we decide what is important for the discovery.
...
I just lost respect.
They have decided to hide and extract information from the forum when they deem it worthwhile.
Pretending like they are connected they use each other to make themselves feel good.
You can see how the big guy set it up.
From the layout,
You can see how the forum was set up. It has already shown this attitude by the format of using indicators and ranking.
This forum has not been public as it pretends, it has been a toy for those who want a club.

Not even able to handle normal debate the big guy in the ski has decided to hide.
He got a little scared and through out a couple of posts as a pacifier.

LOL. Both of you, thanks for the laugh, you are too funny. I am now so glad that this happened if for no other reason than to give you both an opportunity to show your true colors.

I have put up with a lot over the years, but this takes the cake.

If you are really as insecure as your posts indicate, and you just cannot stand the fact that some private forums exist on this website, then I invite you to please leave now and never come back.

-Scott

[rlortie]

Was it Here Here or Hear Hear, Oh well to be safe: Hear here!

Well put Scott, and Thank you!

Ralph