Meet the Clockmaker: Cracking Bessler's Code

[Michael]

Hi Jim,
You've mentioned before you were working on ideas not related to energy, any possibility of finding out what your patent is for, not asking for details, just a rough general idea.
From someone passionate about inventing and patents.

[ken_behrendt]

Well, I tried modeling Novus' latest variation on the Hour Weight Wheel and, as I suspected, it is not workable.

In my version, I made the 5 wheels out of rubber and carefully fitted their edges together so that there should not have been slippage. To help, I made each weight only 0.5 lbs.

The results are attached below. The design always keeled and it seemed that the reason was due to the ever present counter torques within the design that could only be relieved when the system fell into the configuration shown on the right. I tried adding various springs, rods, etc. in an effort to prevent the dropping of all of the four gray weights, but nothing helped.

I will not be wasting anymore time with this one...I just do not consider it to be workable or possible of being made workable.


ken

[Novus]

Ken, remove the cross rods in the center. The diamond needs to flex as it rotates. That should give you a 270 to 360 rotation out of the wheel. Adjusting the gaps give slightly different numbers. I recommend a 0.005 to 0.009 gap on the Y axis.

[jim_mich]

Michael,
The patent I'm working on is a unique variable compression internal combustion engine. My computer simulations indicate it would be about 16 to 20 percent more efficient than conventional engines. Instead of spending $50 at the gas pump you would spend about $40 to $42 to drive the same distance.

I didn't get around to modeling Novus' wheel tonight. Maybe tomorrow?

[spinner361]

In my opion a mechanism is not self starting if it cannot get past the starting position and repeat it self continuously. I do, howewver, feel that a mecahanism is self-starting if can start out from a complete standstill and continue rotating with all of its parts in working position from the start, and no "extra" parts that would require a manual pre-positioning and leave the equation once the mechanism is started. I do not think it is a bad thing to require an outside startup force, because Bessler's biggest wheel also required this.

I was able to make this design with rods connecting the outer four wheels and gears to keep each outer wheel's timing correct. I took out the locking mechanism, for upon startup W2MD "explodes", even if I start it without overlap I do not find it does anything but slow the mechanism down. Without the gears the outer wheels eventually slipped and the entire device made only four rotations (the rubber wheels were a very good idea which I did not try). In W2MD, this will run slow if started slow from an outside startup force and run fast if started fast . Unfortunately it stops very quickly under the slightest amount of friction.

I do not think that this is a complete system - in my opinion it is too simple, and requires further development.

[ken_behrendt]

Spinner wrote:

I do not think it is a bad thing to require an outside startup force, because Bessler's biggest wheel also required this.

I agree with you as far as Bessler's two-directional wheels are concerned. They, most likely, could remain motionless because that is what will happen when two back to back one-directional wheels are placed in the same drum. Each will displace its separate CG onto opposite sides of the axle and the composite CG of both one-directional wheels will be located just below the wheel's single axle (at the dreaded punctum quietus). A push was needed in this case so that enough retrograde rotation could be created in one of the two one-directional wheels so as to begin to engage the locking mechanism that would then disable it and keep its individual CG at the center of the axle.

In general, however, I focus on what the internal design of one of Bessler's one-directional wheels may have looked like. For a one-directional gravity wheel, I consider it mandatory that it be self-starting from a complete standstill...no nudges allowed!


ken

[spinner361]

My current designs, when given a nudge will rotate in either direction. My solid self-starting version rotates counter-clockwise, and my bouncy self-starting version rotates clockwise - but this is just because of its starting position, because these same models if given a nudge would continue in the direction of that nudge. So, because of this, I do not believe that two wheels are necessary for bi-directional movement.

I am not saying that Bessler did not have two opposite spinning wheels inside. I am merely pointing out that this is a hypothetical concept that may or may not be true, and also may or may not work. If his self-starting mechanisms ran twice as fast as his bi-directional version, it may be because of wheel size and the speed at which objects fall. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to conceptualize that he had two opposite running self-starting mechanisms in the bi-directional wheel that ran half as fast instead of the two mechanisms coming closer to cancelling each other out.

[pstroud]

Guys,

I stumbled onto an article today on the Roberval balance. It happened to state that many perpetual motion machine inventors still thought that if there was more weight on one side of the systems rotation axis, then the system could not be in equilibrium, and therefore, must rotate. It states a scientic example of Roberval's principle, which many inventors still continue to make the same mistakes on today. I must say that I fall into this category, even though many on the forum have told me so but I am learning this key ingredient that must be overcome.

Below is the link, which half on the forum already know and the other half can learn from as I am........

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/roberval.htm


Preston.

[spinner361]

Thanks for the link on Roverbal balance. I will have to study this in depth. Perhaps knowing how to turn the Roverbal balance on and off is a key by connecting/disconnecting. Whether it is or not, I still have to find a way to accelerate my designs, or I feel they may fail due to friction. I have mentioned earlier that I may be able to possibly incorporate two of my ideas to gether to accomplish this, but one idea cannot be reliably modeled and I would really like to have the final idea modeled before I attempt to build.

[AgingYoung]

spinner361,
You said:

I am merely suggesting that this general concept is not a waste of time.

How would you describe the general concept of Novus's clock?

Gene

It might be that you couldn't describe the concept of this clock, spinner. Is there anyone that could describe this concept and why they think it's viable?

Gene

[spinner361]

It is not that I cannot express my thoughts in a clear and unambiguous manner, but rather that I cannot think of how to say it without telling you exactly what I have found.

I tried using some springs in a new way on one of my designs. I have not played with this to fine tune it whatsoever - I removed one element (an element which adds rotation stability) for the purpose of generating some quick comparisons and added springs to the system. I noticed a logrythmic increase in speed as spring strength increased, but also some problems due to lack of tinkering:

nudge = 50 kg spring force = na rotation speed = 400 rad in 300s
nudge = 50 kg spring force = 1500 rotation speed = 400 rad in 270s
nudge = 50 kg spring force = 3000 rotation speed = 400 rad in 260s
nudge = 50 kg spring force = 6000 rotation speed = 400 rad in 240s - eventually locks up
nudge = 50 kg spring force = 12000 rotation speed = 400 rad in 220s - eventually locks up
nudge = 50 kg spring force = 24000 rotation = 0

nudge = 10 kg spring force = na rotation speed = 400 rad in 530s
nudge = 10 kg spring force = 1500 rotation speed = 400 rad in 410s
nudge = 10 kg spring force = 3000 rotation speed = 400 rad in 370s - eventually locks up

[AgingYoung]

Fair enough, Spinner. I have some fascinating ideas and although I wasn't specific I at least mentioned the ideas. There's the idea that in the equation of force, mass and acceleration (or rate) the only sensible way to increase the force is to change the acceleration. I've never bought into the idea of rest mass in a Newtonian device. As a matter of fact I think I recently read that they use a Newtonian understanding of physics to do space launches.

I have somewhat of a similar idea to this clock that I drew on poster board. I finished that drawing Monday, December 19, 2005 at 12:08am. I never built it. I used a poster board to be able to put all the lines I needed. It's a nice balance.

The ideas for a wheel go round and round yet the wheels don't. I have a very fascinating work I'm going to take some torque measurements on and post later tonight. When is spring?

Gene

[spinner361]

When is spring? I guess it is fairly soon. I just keep learning new stuff. At this learning rate, building would be a bad idea right now. Perhaps in a couple of months.

I tried another spring test with the rotation stabilizer included, and it worked with spring force of 12000. I just briefly checked the rotation graph this morning, and it showed a slight curve of acceleration over the entire runtime! I am going to have to try this with higher strengths and document the results. I do not understand why this works, because at the exact same time a spring is stretched, another spring of equal size and strength is relaxing to its static state. The springs really give it a "snap". I sincerely hope W2MD is not playing tricks on me. I am really really trying not to get too excited.

[spinner361]

I feel that I have already presented the general idea of my current designs (very general). They are like Novus' idea but with more stuff. I do not think I could make my current ideas work without this basic concept. The use of this concept was an answer to a problem, not the foundation of the whole idea. I guess the best way to describe it is planetary gears with a bit of mechanical persuasion. My ideas are not complicated. Any more clues than this will give it all away, if I haven't already. From the beginning, I just wanted to say that I believe this concept is not a waste of time, although I do feel that the overbalanced wheel could be configured in several ways if it can be done at all. On the other hand, what works in a digital world may not work in the analog world, so I try not to get too excited for my own sanity.

If someone comes up a design like mine, I hope they are successful because I will buy one, but I am going to try this first. I learned that a wordwide patent costs about $10,000.00 with a patent lawyer's assistance. If I can build a successful prototype, this will not be a big deal. If and when I apply for the patents I believe I can safely disclose everything publicly.

[Fletcher]

You have to use the 'dampened spring element' to simulate real world. The ordinary spring element flexes/stretches & compresses without losses, in wm2d otherwise !