Bessler's use of Gravity

[ken_behrendt]

Well, I read through the explosive expansion of posts in this thread over the last day or so and see that there are several "themes" intertwined with each other.

The current meandering of the original topic seems to have been triggered by my request that someone (I think it was Steve) please define what it meant to NOT "pin" one's weights to a wheel. Simple enough question. Which, of course, means that it is still not being answered to most readers' satisfaction.

After reading Ralph's lengthy posts, I think his definition of NOT pinning one's weights to the wheel has something to do with using rolling ball or cylindrical weights. I have seen many designs for these over the years and, like Bessler, I put little hope in any of them ever producing continuous motion. Yes, at first glance, they can look as though they MUST keep the CG of the weights always on their descending side, but that always turns out to be an illusion. In reality, these devices will not complete a fraction of a rotation because, at some point, they must use the wheel's kinetic energy to raise their weights either to their top or back to a starting position near the wheel's axle. That immediate introduces counter torques into the mechanism that brings it to halt.

Some one referred to my approach as the "simple" approach. I do this on purpose. I've noticed from my own research that the continuous failure of one's designs tends to naturally incline one to move on to progressively more complicated designs that must surely overcome the problems of the most recently past failed design. I now fully accept that this tendency, as suggested by Bessler, must be resisted at all costs. The design that finally works will be a simple one that nobody, for one reason or another, has ever tried since the times of Bessler.

Did James Kelly actually have a working wheel back in the '60's? I do not know because I was not there. Actually whether he did on or not is really irrelevant as far as the world is concerned unless he can NOW produce the same device and bring it to the attention of the world. I can only personally state that if any of the early devices I had worked on in the late '60's had worked, then I would have move heaven and earth to bring it to the attention of the world at that time...nothing, short of death, would have prevented me from doing that because of the importance of such a discovery.

Well, I will also re-emphasize here that I intend to post any and all designs that I am working on here in this Discussion Board in the future. I am not awaiting possible future verification of the design's abilities or for the finally granting of a patent. If any of my attempts should work, then great! I want inventors around the world to immediately begin working with the new approach and trying to improve it. They'll all steal my idea and make billions off of it?! I'll gladly forfeit the billions just for being able to legitimately claim to have conceived the basic mechanism that is incorporated in all of their patents. They can have the money. Most of them will be forgotten a thousand years from now. As the discoverer of the mechanism Bessler used, I will be remembered as long as he is...


ken

[james kelly]

There we have the problem with sharring in a nut shell. All you fine gentlemen have to do is read back your own words. Once again I have come forward to make an announcement, and look at how it was recieved. Ken b. is the guru, who nows all and is a viable critic. Ken toliver feels betrayed. Others say it is impossible. Steve is a true gentleman. THE rest of you may stew in your own juices. I will not come back. but I will reimburse for my use of this forum. jim kelly

[james kelly]

here are some old pictures. may I stress old?

[rlortie]

Ken,

The current meandering of the original topic seems to have been triggered by my request that someone (I think it was Steve) please define what it meant to NOT "pin" one's weights to a wheel. Simple enough question. Which, of course, means that it is still not being answered to most readers' satisfaction.

So please elaborate on what part you feel is not being answered, so that the discussion can continue and fulfill your statement that it is still not being answered. If drawing a sim you pin it! if building it hands on you are attaching it! If you do neither then it is free to seek!

After reading Ralph's lengthy posts, I think his definition of NOT pinning one's weights to the wheel has something to do with using rolling ball or cylindrical weights. I have seen many designs for these over the years and, like Bessler, I put little hope in any of them ever producing continuous motion

Wrong, you are still looking down the same old tunnel! I am not talking about rolling balls or cylindrical weights. If you would read farther down you will see where I addressed that issue. We all agree that rolling balls if contained in the "stuck in a rut fashion" will not work. MT drawing of such nature will not work. Bessler knew that and so does all the major members of this forum. I bet all those designs you have seen over the years had more concentrated weight on the ascending side. You may as well be looking at a fake mouse hole painted on the mop board!

I am talking about weights as describe by Bessler or jim_mich's pair of pairs. weights that are not attached or pinned to the wheel such as your latest design, which IMO basically is no different than the ones posted a year ago.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

...Once again I have come forward to make an announcement, and look at how it was recieved.

James, is my understanding correct - you have recently succeeded in reproducing your earlier working design? Can you provide any further details for me, either here or by private email? Thanks.

[coylo]

Oh, I must have missed something - again -. Lets summarize.

James, in 1963 you invented & built an "operating" gravity wheel. No dispute there about what "operating" means ? If so, pipe up now with your definition of "operating". I take it to mean a self sustaining "working" gravity wheel.

After 1963 you built many more such wheels, one even from 44 gallon drums filled with concrete. They all worked/operated but now all are lost or destroyed.

Then you found BesslerWheel.com & told us we were a bunch of dummies because we couldn't figure it out. Finally after much polite chitter chatter over several months you confided in Ralph. You both set about to replicate the designs of old BUT there was a memory problem & you couldn't now remember how to construct them properly.

You seemed to be able to remember the principle which you shared with Ralph but not the final detail that would get Ralph's one working i.e. self perpetuating movement. You posted a patent (somebody else's) that was the supposed same as yours. It was a ramp device with sliding weight supports thru the center of the axle. Ralph still was scratching his head to get the design working.

Then publicly you said it needed the X factor to get it going & that was magnets which was a surprise to Ralph IIRC, oh yeah, that was after you said you couldn't ship the X factor UPS cause it was hazardous material.

So what am I left to think now ? That you & Ralph now have a different design you are both collaborating & working on together simultaneously OR you are working on the OLD design with the hazardous material or magnets or whatever & you have now remembered how to use the X factor to get the old design going.

Give me a break.

Fletcher, thanks for refreshing our memories with this summary. I'd forgotten all this coupled with the fact that this thread is hard to follow, with all that's happening behind the seens. So once again I turn to Ralph...

To your knowledge does Jim Kelly have a working device?
Have you seen it before you with your own eyes.........working?
Is his story completely true?

Thanks.

If my memory serves me correctly..........
Didn't Mr.Kelly also mention that his idea was suppressed and certain family members threatened back in the good old 60's. That someone or something was laying the squeeze on him!

EDIT:
I've gotta tell ya's that there are too many twists and turns in this story for my liking, I find the "memory loss" part very convenient! It seems to me that Mr. Kelly hasn't done himself any favours in getting taken seriously around here.

[james kelly]

I don't suppose that you have ever had any serious physical ailments, ,like dying, cancer. congestive heart failure. Only Ralph knows anything about me. no one else know anything, but they rush to judgement. bill private post it is. jim kelly

[rlortie]

Coylo and Fletcher,

Once again I am in the middle, you have directed your questions to me. My integrity and reputation force me to answer, even though I would rather be standing on the side lines.

[So once again I turn to Ralph...]
[To your knowledge does Jim Kelly have a working device?]

To my knowledge Jim has informed me by telephone that he does. To add to this statement would be pure speculation on my part.

[Have you seen it before you with your own eyes.........working?]

NO I have not seen it working with my own eyes We are over 1/2 of the USA from each other.

[Is his story completely true?]

I am not in a position or have substantiating evidence to prove or disprove his story.

I consider James a close friend, we treat each other like brothers, but have never physically laid eyes upon each other I look upon him as a man 10 years my senior ( I am 66) who was very productive in his chosen fields during his heyday. He has obtained a great amount of experience during his lifetime and I find him to be very innovative person that one can learn from. Between his innovation and my resources and aptitude we make one hell of a team in my books!

As for the subject regarding memory loss, I do have third party confirmation that James has suffered through a lot of health problems and that he indeed was subjected to mental depravement or a mental handicap, how ever you wish to call it. It has been said by this third party that there were times he could not even remember the names of his own children. From this I leave you to form your own conclusions

I only wish that the younger generations composing this forum would show respect to their elders and accept what can happen to you as you get older

James lacks four years of being an octogenarian, give us both a break!

Ralph

[Fletcher]

Not judgement James - it goes to credibility in the eyes of your peers, but then you probably don't think any of us are worthy to be called peers by the contempt & defensiveness of past posts [BTW we've seen this evasion & obfuscation tatic before in others i.e. no straight talking].

Let the dice fall where they may. You'll be hero or zero buddy, I can live with either way.

P.S. thanks for clearing that up Ralph, your comments are appreciated & understood.

[rlortie]

During the pace of this thread today I pulled a boo-boo. I posted something that I should not have due to a lapse of memory on my own part.

To the effected person I make a public apology and promise that it will not happen again. I do not intentionally post information gained by private mail unless the author opens the door on the public forum first. Today I made a slip up and inadvertently broke that rule.

Ralph

[coylo]

Look at that, three straight questions followed by three straight answers. You can always rely on you Ralph to get to the bottom of things.
Thank you!

I don't get Mr. Kelly, just what is it that he wants?.....I'm beginning to think it's our sympathy.
What's the problem with taking a pen to paper and jotting down that design of his, get help to post it on the forum, look back and see that he has led a good life and pass on something to the next generation....and live forever in their eyes!

Now, what's wrong with that?

Maybe he's holding out to secure his families future with this device of his???

So what do you want Mr. Kelly?...we would like to understand your situation!

[james kelly]

FAME & FORTUNE is what Iam after!

[ovyyus]

Better be quick :D

[coylo]

LMAO Bill!

Well, it's not too late to get yourself one of those Anna Nicole Smith type trophy wives, and leave her all the inheritance, like that oul' Texas oil tycoon did!

That and plenty of viagra, that's what I would do! yeehaa.

[ovyyus]

You'll make a filthy old man coylo - lol

There's more than one horse in the race for a solution and there's more than one reason they better be quick ;)