New Patent law discussion thread

[preoccupied]

Jim_Mich are you saying that after about 18 months from now someone cannot publicly share their invention before filing in the USA? They must file first?

[jim_mich]

Oh, they can share their invention, but then they will not be able to get a patent. This goes into effect about 18 months from now.

Right now, in most other countries, if someone shares their invention before filing, then they cannot get a patent.

[path_finder]

Dear jim_mich,

Right now, in most other countries, if someone shares their invention before filing, then they cannot get a patent.

The most important is: nobody else also (cannot get a patent).
This is the reason why I publish here everything with full details.

edited:
the only remaining solution for a 'last minute inventor' is to find an improvement (named 'innovation') for the published design, justifying a request for a patent.

[nicbordeaux]

The only sensible thing to do must be to publish something, whilst having something else different and far superior as to make the published device immediately obsolescent were anybody to steal-patent and invest very heavily in the published.

[Furcurequs]

Hello,

While doing some online reading, I stumbled upon this link to the Professional Inventors Alliance:

http://www.piausa.org/

They appear to be a near two decade old organization who are highly opposed to the recent changes in U.S. patent law and have been trying to stop it.

I quote:

Our Great American Patent System
Is on the Verge of Being Destroyed!

Help Us Save it By Defeating Upcoming Destructive Anti-American Patent Legislation

Anyway, they seem to have a rather extensive collection of documents regarding the subject in their article database.

...just fyi.

Dwayne

[jim_mich]

Professional Inventors Alliance is one of the few ligitimate inventor organization. There are many inventor rip-off organization out there, so inventors beware.

Ronald J. Riley, President and founder of Professional Inventors Alliance is an inventor from Michigan. He also maintains an email 'list server' where inventors can ask other inventors for advice. I have been a member of this email list server for many years.

Another member on the email list is Ed Zimmer. Many years ago (1976-1981) I worked as a design draftsman for Ann Arbor Terminals, a young start-up computer company, founded by inventor and entrepreneur, Ed Zimmer and two other electronic engineers.

http://tenonline.org/abt.html

[Furcurequs]

I did have to poke around that website a bit before deciding that it looked legit. I came to the conclusion, though, that if they were a scammer organization, they wouldn't be so concerned about the actual patent laws. ..lol

I found out recently that a neighbor of mine is trying to patent a gadget he's come up with, and sadly I believe he's being ripped off by one of those organizations. Well, to be honest, an older woman that he knows and who he has somehow talked into paying for it all seems to be the one being ripped off.

I think over $10,000 has been paid already, and all he has to show for it is a nice bound copy of all the other patented designs they found through a patent search that do basically the same thing his device does along with a few letters telling about the wonderful stuff the company is doing to help promote his idea - like listing it on their website so that other companies can log in to see it, for instance.

He wants a utility patent on his idea, but they say (and probably honestly in that at least) that they would only be able to get him a design patent. Actually, I guess, they were pretty honest even about the piss poor results they've had in promoting their other clients' ideas.

I don't remember the exact numbers I saw in the paperwork, but I do remember they were pretty sorry - like maybe but a fraction of a percent of their clients had actually profited from their patents. Of course, though, that didn't seem to dissuade my neighbor too much from continuing on with them and pursuing his dream.

I may have to say something to him before he talks that woman into paying much more money, though.

Anyway, I found the link that I posted earlier while searching for local patent attorneys and law firms in the area who deal with intellectual property law. There seem to be quite a few good ones not too far from me in Knoxville, TN - which, of course, isn't far from the Oak Ridge National Laboratories.

You think if I got something working and went to patent attorneys that also did work for the government and/or government employees, that the men in black would get to take care of me even before the patent office saw my application?

(That reminds me. When I was in college a guy who claimed to be a private investigator did question me about a dorm suite mate of mine who had apparently applied for a job at Oak Ridge.)

Anyway, the info you posted is interesting. It's nice to know there are sincere people out their willing to help others and give practical advice.

In my search earlier I also found the (legit) Tennessee Inventors Association website and saw that the professor I went to nearly 25 years ago to talk about the Joseph Newman stuff was still an active member. After looking through his list of patents, I also saw why he might have investigated Newman's claim before I showed up at his door.

It seems just a few years before I spoke with him he shared in a patent with others (and apparently even including a professor I actually had in college) of a device that used both electromagnets and permanent magnets in which some effects not known by the experts in the field were claimed - U.S. patent # 4,479,103. I believe it was assigned to a motor company, so I think it helps reduce the amount of iron used in the motors, basically.

His other patents involved masers and plasma antennas and stuff like that.

...oh, and...

Many years ago I also had a little experience with a computer company.

Back in those college days in the '80s I spent 7 quarters working in the research and development labs of IBM (6 of them through my school's co-operative education program) and including one quarter in the actual design group of one of the IBM personal computers - the PC/AT.

A couple of the guys I worked with have since been inducted into the U.S. National Inventors Hall of Fame for that stuff - Mark Dean and Dennis Moeller.

They basically came up with the computer bus architecture that became the standard for the PC clones that took over the market for many years thereafter.

I didn't return to IBM after college because I felt I had to follow my own inspirations wherever they would lead me. As far as creatively, that may have been one of the best decisions I ever made, but unfortunately in regards to my personal life, it may have been one of the worst.

Time will tell though, I guess, whether it all will ultimately pay off in some way or another (other than just having the satisfaction of having tried to go my own way for a while) - or whether I've just been mostly nuts.

Actually, it's not looking that good for me these days thanks to the health problems.

(Okay, maybe I am a bit nuts, but at least I'm not one of those nuts still working for THE MAN!)

I read up a little bit on the Zimmer fellow. I've always admired the entrepreneurial sort. It sounds like your work with him would have been rather interesting, too.

Thanks.

Dwayne

[getterdone]

I work for a big oil company ,28 dayson and 28 days off. As part of the hiring package I had to sign a paper that said that they had claim to any patents I might file while under there employment. Most big companies are now making new hires sign similar papers.

I hesitated to sign it, but needed the work. Getting a patent has never been a priority for me. Could the company I work for lay claim to my discovery , if I ever got OU.

The big corporation have way to much influence over our goverments

It's all BULLSHIT

[Furcurequs]

Hey Getterdone,

I had to sign something like that each time I returned to IBM from school when I was in my school's co-operative education program.

I always had a hard time with that, too.

I wanted to be an inventor every since I was a kid, and so the thought of signing over the rights to my inventive ideas even before I had them to some employer didn't sit well with me.

That's one of the reasons why I didn't want to return to corporate America after college, though I did work a year or two as an "engineer" at a contract firm not far from my hometown afterwards.

I used quotes there because that job wasn't in R& D and so I didn't feel like I was really doing much in the way of engineering at all compared to what I was used to at IBM even as a co-op student.

Anyway, when signing those papers at IBM, I would always wonder if that meant they would even own ideas unrelated to my job or that I had on my own time when not directly on the job.

I suspect that if there were ideas totally unrelated to the work, there would probably be some legal ways out, but I'm sure if the ideas seemed like valuable ones it would still be a major hassle.

If I remember correctly, when signing the paperwork people could, of course, also jot down any intellectual property they already owned or ideas they were already working on.

Big corporations are able to offer their employees nice, warm and cozy environments in which to do their work and inventing, though, so it can be a difficult choice to make.

Some of the most unhappy people I saw at IBM seemed to be the ones who wanted to do their own thing but acknowledged they already had families to feed and so couldn't take the chance.

Of course, too, many people were totally happy with their jobs. ...I guess while feeling all warm and protected, maybe. ...lol

I knew I would be one of the unhappy ones if I returned and so I took the chance and left the corporate job behind.

I'm currently warm but certainly not cozy. I'm now nearing 50 with no family of my own and in poor health. I sometimes wonder if some of my ideas were to even eventually help change the world for the better, was it worth the personal sacrifice?

I have to hope so. Because of the sorts of jobs I've chosen to work to free my mind and the way I've been treated by some others because of them, I've seen that many people in this world are making the sacrifices without even having had the choice.

Sorry. I didn't mean to get so heavy.

I'd bet if you told your employer you were working on a gravity powered motor, they might just give you waver on something like that. ...and, yes, even an oil company.

Of course, though, you might also need to expect something in the way of a mental evaluation to come somewhere down the line, too.

;)

Well, I'm only halfway kidding.

Take care.

Dwayne

[getterdone]

Thanks for the advice, I'm returning to work on wednesday, and I will mention to my superviser that I want a waver for the'' impossible machine '' ,I'm certain that that should put me on the top of the list for random drug testing,oh well lol.

Your post reminded me of the lyrics of an old John Prine song. An old man sleeps with his concience, a young man sleeps with his dreams, and here I lye somewhere in life's inbetween.

Take care of your health, that's always no. 1

Leo

[Furcurequs]

Hey Leo,

Be careful about taking my advice! Oh, and I see I misspelled "waiver" earlier, too, by the way.

Anyway, good luck with your return to work and whatever you decide there. I hadn't thought about the drug thing, but maybe it would be better for you if their initial reaction is, "What have you been smoking?" rather than "Are you nuts?!"

...unless, of course, you haven't been smoking anything. ..lol

Wow, that's a nice John Prine line.

I think it's been about 18 years ago now, but back then when I still had my health and worked in a group home, a guy I knew who also worked for the same company told me he was friends with John Prine.

He said they would get together and play guitar and stuff. He actually wanted me to go with him sometime to meet Mr. Prine, but I was busy with some things and didn't see the fellow very often, so it never happened.

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't really know much about John Prine back then, but now that I do know a bit more about him and have heard some of his music, I sometimes have to kick myself for not having taken that opportunity.

So, I guess I shouldn't leave that off the list of things I'm currently sleeping with.

Thanks for the sentiment about my health. Hopefully I'll eventually get things sorted out.

Dwayne