Cracking Apologia "Wheel Page"

[justsomeone]

1. I am no where near being convinced but I would like to see more.

17 & 17 = 1+7 & 1+7???
It could also be 1×7×1×7 or 1×7& 1×7 or 1×7+1×7.....

[daxwc]

1. Was this first AP code I presented, solved and proven to an extend that we can all agree that Apologia Poetica is proven to contain a secret code?

Yes; I think everybody realises that due to the suspicious over labelling that some kind of code is applied. I personally am not exactly sure if you got it right, just like geometric codes it needs to evolve. That means getting somethings wrong and somethings right.

2. Was it so interesting that you want to know where the trails lead further?

Yes; but trying to sell a book to 20 members might not be that rewarding. From an academia level people are going to be interested, but those books are not best sellers. People just do not see perpetual motion as a pot of gold anymore; fools gold is our quest. So your book must stand on its legs of coding during a time science was discriminated against.


Don’t get me wrong Oystein I think your work is great and hope you continue. Now, have you found out if the two styles of A's is two different numbers or two different functions as far as the labelling code goes so I don’t have to waste my time trying to help you 8P

[Oystein]

Thank you.

I was not doing this to find potential buyers on the besslerwheel forum :-)

I asked because I want to know at what level the information hit the receiver. If, at all? If some people want to know more here..other people in the "real world" would want that too. Then my message is somewhat receivable.. That is enough for me to know..

But my first book is about how this relates to the history of "the real world". Not so much detailed codes like this. (But I have to be able to back my claims when the going gets tough.) The first book is more about: What known persons in history, hid the secret of Rosy Cross and Masonry in their paintings, and in what prints? When did it start? What does it mean? What was the secret on which the Rosy Cross was founded? Bessler knew.. And lastly why haven't it been published in clear text?..even though quite a few people know this stuff! And what can we learn from it? How can knowledge hinder us? That is what I am working on in parallel, at the moment.

And I wan't to connect to a writer that can dramatise Novels or scripts based on the Rosicrucian secret.

From your answer I wonder.. Can you mention one specific thing that does not prove itself, and manifest itself as a proven code, in the headings of AP and on to the EVCLID Elements in the AP wheel, as I presented it?

When I think about it..what I really wanted was to establish a common ground and a new consensus. What is needed to prove a code, without building and succeeding with a wheel. I want the discussion and the enigma to be: "What did he encode in his book?" Not; "Did he really encode his books?"

Would it help, if I show how EVCLIDS XV IV 16 version, in the next step give the true answer to the devil's number - - ? And how that again can be proven...

Would that make you say. Yes, this was Bessler's secret intention. This is a real code, and it's solved correctly.

[ovaron]

@ Oystein

Your decoding is extremely interesting, even though I do not believe that Bessler has left his mechanism as a decipherable code. But who really knows? It is definitely worth the effort, because (for me) new amazing insights are revealed. I am convinced that the decryption of symbols of the Freemasons and Rosicrucians has the potential to become a bestseller. I would buy it IMMEDIATELY if it is available. Your comments are very convincing regarding the APO wheel and I would like to know more about it and where it lead us. For me, it's thrilling like a novel by Dan Brown. Written in a thrilling matter it could definitely become a bestseller. You HAVE TO finish and publish it.

[daxwc]

Oystein the major hurdle you have is getting members/people up to speed on ancient secret knowledge. I am a poor candidate because I have at least dipped in it enough to have an unbiased view.

Probably more members would be interested if they actually saw it going somewhere as opposed to signaling to society members. That includes my stuff too, but it is site on perpetual motion not perpetual sacred signaling ;)
I keep doing it because I learn something I am interested in. Outsiders have "problems connecting the dots" and it just becomes a sea of numbers or lines.

So where did I exactly get lost? When 41 became 5 but left F out because the solution/formula is still not apparent and that is the problem when most people get lost and are not interested they say what a bunch of garbage or its a coincidence.

[Oystein]

I guess you after some consideration understood that the numbers or letters either is balanced as pairs on a balanced lever, or single like the central "F"? The hub, the bob, the pivot.. (Central, and needs no pair, to balance.)

Thus F was different than all the other numbers!
So E was the only one that needed a balanced twin! But I wouldn't have to point out the obvious pattern of the pairs. 1x1 2x2 3x3 4x4 5x5 = 55 would I?

But I could say: Now what??

Yes, it proves 41=4+1=5!! Is that all? (In reality a OK proof of Digit Sum)

We need to seek another magic total sum including the F !? (Is that what you mean?) Or do you think I should show another drawing where digit sum was used? Remember, the pyramid formula was just an observation at that point, and had nothing to do with the proof of digit sum was heavily used by RC. I just wanted to show an example where simple digit sum can be proven to be used by little explenation.

Just add the F and find the "invisible 5" and you have 55 + 6 + 5 = 66

55 and 66 is both triangular numbers and looks like this: (you could envision a triangle, a pyramid or a christmas tree)

1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 = 55 ..then + 11(6+5) = 66

Why must the 5 be hidden? Or else the balanced pairs system 1x1+2x2+3x3+4x4+5x5 would be messed up.

And how can Bessler have also "indicate" that there must be a hidden 5?
A+A+B+B+C+C+D+D+E+(4+1) + F + Hidden 5 = 41

No you follow again!

[daxwc]

Sorry I don't see your secret 5.

[sleepy]

Oystein,
You're work is amazing and thanks for sharing with us.But I'd like to bring up a few points.
1.If these are intentional codes,and these codes were previously only known to Rosicrucians and Masons, then why aren't there Rosicrucians and Masons with working wheels? They had a three hundred year head start.
2.In order to encode his writings and drawings from throughout his life,Bessler would have to have known how his work and ideas would end up panning out from a very young age.
3.If you are familiar with the "number 23" game,then you know that very clever and driven people can make almost any array of numbers and letters come out to 23.Is it possible that Bessler's codes were completely unintentional?

[Stewart]

Hi Oystein

"In AP Orffyreus called 1717 the year of Orffyreus, and he wrote that it was the year, written with 17 twice. Thus: "17" & "17"."

Please can you provide an exact quote for this? Thanks.

Congratulations on your new son by the way, and glad to hear he's getting your full attention - undoubtedly your finest work! :-) However, his name suggests a slightly unhealthy obsession with Bessler! ;-)

Anyway, must fly as I've got to pick up the twins, Orffie & Bessie, from their organ building class.

All the best
Stewart

[ovaron]

Sorry I don't see your secret 5.

The 5 maybe is an artifact, but I can see a "secret" F inside the left stork bill and a "secret" upside down V inside the F (the foot of the F).

However, the deciphering now becomes very flimsy.

[Oystein]

Haha.. Elias is a normal name in Norway, so why not :-) Say hello to your twins..

AP: Part 1 XXXV (35) Three and five!

The Collins English translation say, that he will "patent" his invention for public use... during that special year written twice with the numer 17.

[Stewart]

Hi Dax & Ovaron

I've attached an image of Oystein's "secret 5" in MT41. I'm not saying I agree it's meant to the be there however.

Stewart

[daxwc]

Hmm... very interesting. Also looks like a 3 right after maybe. 53?

[Oystein]

daxwc/ovaron if you don't see it, and don't see that by adding 4+1 you get the last pair balanced? Then you can simply ignore the reference to the method in MT41.

If you are trying to understand it, you can just accept that Digit Sum (adding letters, numbers and Roman numerals) was used by Bessler and many many others. Picture attached for you!

Do you believe Digit Sum was used in the AP headers, or not?

And do you acknowledge that Bessler used Digit Sum in general?
Yes? (If so where?)
No?

I have plenty of other pages where I can prove the use of Digit Sum, by both Bessler and others before and after him, so that is not the problem. So you just have to accept that Digit Sum was a known method even prior to Bessler, so it could be used. Anyway, we have to test it to find out, see attachment!

[Oystein]

This is my best shot of the "5".

If the mechanism should work, there must be placed a mechanical V upon the 5.. (Roman numer 5=V)

I believe it was another forum member that found this, years ago..

I just wanted to offer you ways to see that Digit Sums where used, and showed how the pairs in MT41 made pairs, and the pairs is identical to The Pyramid formula, 55 and LV.

Myself I have no problem enjoying that as a stand alone observation, though I have Digit Sum solution that will end up on Wikipedia, but I am not ready to publish them here yet!

You asked what I believe we could do with the F, and you got my answer. Then there must be a 5 somewhere, but it has nothing to do with how we can enjoy a nice way to blend in Digit Sums into the known Pyramid formula..This pyramid formula was often used as a RC watermark..

But we are not at a mechanism yet! I am not ready for that. And it would be sudden, to just put the mechanism upon the first picture in a long story..

By the way..the next step with this painting, as several others, is to fold it..Then you will really understand what the "invisible" 5 is for mathematically..

I will evaluate presenting the solution here...