Covid-19

[Art]

Just checked out the Anne Summers link you supplied Agor .

: )

I think I'll modify my offer .

I wonder if she would be interested in making a personal delivery at a 2 : 1 trade if I promise to self isolate for 14 days before she gets here and we both self isolate together again after she gets here for another 14 Days (I think there should be enough vintage pasta here )

The reason for the first self isolation is I need to make a quick visit to the liquor/beer store to check out how their stocks are , and the reason for the second isolation is I want to make sure I get everything she is coming with : )

[agor95]

Hi Art

If you are having a hard time staying in for 14 days.

She has some discipline equipment that you might find inappropriate :)

All the Best

[Oystein]

By the way. National warning about "fake corona news" (as we discussed).

Ref:
>>> Avoid drinking ice water or drinks with ice cubes.

Advice: Please don't avoid drinking cold water:

https://www.abcnyheter.no/helse-og-livs ... ikke-folge

As for now, Norway are able to keep new infected at a flat rate of about 200 new cases a day by national lockdown, without overloading the free/public healthcare system. Thus avoiding the super high death rates of Italy.

Here are a little translation of the refute by a university professor:

These days, a voice message is spreading on social media, which has picked up several such undocumented claims about the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the covid-19 disease. In the report, there is an unidentified lady who is talking, and who states an unnamed doctor at a hospital in Gran Canaria, as a source.

Here you are told, among other things, that you can protect yourself from covid-19 complications, by drinking lots of hot drinks, like tea and coffee, and by drinking hot water every 20 minutes. This should, according to the report, flush the virus into the stomach and thus prevent it from entering the lungs.

This has nothing to do with it, according to virus expert Gunnveig Grødeland at the University of Oslo.

- I myself am an avid tea drinker and I think it is very good. But it does not protect against viruses. You have a body temperature of around 37 degrees, and that is whether you drink cold or hot drinks. The temperature of the drink will have no effect on viral replication, the researcher told ABC News.

- Had it been so easy, we would not have needed hospitals and the like - and we will.

The report also gives advice on gargling antiseptic hot water, with vinegar, salt or the like, which also does not work, stresses Grødeland.

Also read: Professor: There are infectious measures, not warmer weather, that will stop the spread of the coronavirus

- Viruses are not trolls - they do not burst into the sun

The lady in the message says that you have to take a bath or shower as soon as you enter from the street, because the virus can attach to hair and clothes.

"Avoid sitting down anywhere, go straight to the bathroom or shower. If you can't wash your clothes daily, hang them out in the sunlight, which also breaks the virus, �she says.

- It is not that the virus attaches itself to hair and clothing which is the primary route of infection for the corona virus. I have never heard of people who have been infected by viruses from their clothes. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to wash clothes a little more often as a simple precaution, comments Grødeland.

However, the recommendation to hang clothes in the sunlight to get rid of any viruses is just nonsense, according to the researcher.

- The viruses are not trolls - they do not burst in the sun, she says

Stay safe
ØR

[Robinhood46]

">>> Avoid drinking ice water or drinks with ice cubes. "
This advice would correspond with the advice that cold drinks and food have a negative effect on our spleen. The ins and outs i can't remember exactly.
The spleen is an important organ that plays a major role in the lymphatic system and a healthy lymphatic system allows the body to combat viruses better than un unhealthy one.
The studies that refute the advice of not drinking cold drinks i have not read so i cannot say with confidence one way or the other.

[Oystein]

So back to the death rate of Covid-19.

I mentioned earlier that there are many unregistered/untested cases even in the countries with relative high testing.

This is of course important to finally calculate how dangerous an infection is.

Today Norway have 2573 registered cases and 10 deaths. That would give us death rate of 0,38% But we know that many people have not been diagnosed and are told to stay home in isolation with sneezing, dry cough etc.

I said earlier that I believe the untested infected are in a number 2x to 10x.

Now the real death rate becomes lower..

So the biggest problem with the corona versus other viruses as the swine flu etc. seems to be how fast and easy it spreads, because if it is left to spread like the flu, the hospitals becomes overloaded very soon, and then people die at much higher rate, as seen i Italy and starting in Spain. There another problem has also become that all the heathcare workers also got infected and spread the virus to the sick and elderly "from the inside". This can happen when the system is overloaded and unprepared..

Today a new report came out and it was a report saying that the doctors in Norway suspecting there are around 20.000 untested infection, by manually reporting whenever they believe a pasient has the corona virus.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/fastleger-mist ... 1.14956823

2500 registered...maybe 2.000 - 20.000 unregistered.. 10 deaths.

A much "better" death rate can be calculated from this.

Keep Safe, keep calm and act to prevent overloading the healthcare systems.
ØR

[Robinhood46]

Her er korona-koden brukt

Korona-kodene er satt slik blant fastlegene som bruker PasientSky sitt journalsystem:

Bodø og omegn: 211
Kristiansand og omegn: 1890
Stor-Bergen: 123
Stor-Oslo: 8700
Stor-Stavanger: 1910
Stor-Trondheim: 2169
Tromsø og omegn: 341
Ã…lesund og omegn: 912
Øvrig: 3944
These don't correspond with any official numbers being given. Would i be right in assuming that these are estimations of the real cases and if so who and how did they calculate them?

[agor95]

I hope this helps

https://www.vg.no/spesial/2020/corona/

Just remember to compare the total with the WHO total for yesterday with the total in the details.

It is a simple check and helps flag up a numbers out of sync event.

All the Best

[TGM]

It's time to turn the US economy back on and accept the losses.

We may lose a million old people and kill the cruise ship industry, but 99+% of Americans need to go back to work.

[Robinhood46]

Your estimation of a million can be considered realistic under the circumstances. The CFR is very low because the health system can supply needed care to save peoples lives. If in the near future there are 50M cases to get the 1M deaths (CFR 2%), do you think the US can supply the needed care to all the people in need to save their lives or will the CFR be far higher?
How many old people dying from covid 19 and not so old people dying from other health probs due to lack of adequate treatment is acceptable?
If it was garanteed that only 1 million would die by doing nothing, this could effectively be an option and as horrifique as it sounds an option to be considered. The problem is that by not putting in place drastic mesures the probability that the number of deaths being way higher than just 1M is very high. How much higher than 1M would be pure speculation at present. The questions that count are;
How many people losing their lives can be considered acceptable?
What is the probability that this virus will kill an unacceptable number of people?

[Art]

By the way. National warning about "fake corona news" (as we discussed).

Ref:
>>> Avoid drinking ice water or drinks with ice cubes.

Advice: Please don't avoid drinking cold water:

https://www.abcnyheter.no/helse-og-livs ... ikke-folge

As for now, Norway are able to keep new infected at a flat rate of about 200 new cases a day by national lockdown, without overloading the free/public healthcare system. Thus avoiding the super high death rates of Italy.

Here are a little translation of the refute by a university professor:

These days, a voice message is spreading on social media, which has picked up several such undocumented claims about the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the covid-19 disease. In the report, there is an unidentified lady who is talking, and who states an unnamed doctor at a hospital in Gran Canaria, as a source.

Here you are told, among other things, that you can protect yourself from covid-19 complications, by drinking lots of hot drinks, like tea and coffee, and by drinking hot water every 20 minutes. This should, according to the report, flush the virus into the stomach and thus prevent it from entering the lungs.

This has nothing to do with it, according to virus expert Gunnveig Grødeland at the University of Oslo.

- I myself am an avid tea drinker and I think it is very good. But it does not protect against viruses. You have a body temperature of around 37 degrees, and that is whether you drink cold or hot drinks. The temperature of the drink will have no effect on viral replication, the researcher told ABC News.

- Had it been so easy, we would not have needed hospitals and the like - and we will.

The report also gives advice on gargling antiseptic hot water, with vinegar, salt or the like, which also does not work, stresses Grødeland.

Also read: Professor: There are infectious measures, not warmer weather, that will stop the spread of the coronavirus

- Viruses are not trolls - they do not burst into the sun

The lady in the message says that you have to take a bath or shower as soon as you enter from the street, because the virus can attach to hair and clothes.

"Avoid sitting down anywhere, go straight to the bathroom or shower. If you can't wash your clothes daily, hang them out in the sunlight, which also breaks the virus, �she says.

- It is not that the virus attaches itself to hair and clothing which is the primary route of infection for the corona virus. I have never heard of people who have been infected by viruses from their clothes. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to wash clothes a little more often as a simple precaution, comments Grødeland.

However, the recommendation to hang clothes in the sunlight to get rid of any viruses is just nonsense, according to the researcher.

- The viruses are not trolls - they do not burst in the sun, she says

Stay safe
ØR

OK Good .

Lets start at the top and work through .It might be valuable . The stakes are high here !

"- I myself am an avid tea drinker and I think it is very good. But it does not protect against viruses. You have a body temperature of around 37 degrees, and that is whether you drink cold or hot drinks. The temperature of the drink will have no effect on viral replication, the researcher told ABC News. "

(1) Viruses don't replicate if they are not inside the cell .
(2) Viruses don't get inside the cell and replicate if they are "Denatured" or Killed before they penetrate the cell wall.
(3) Whenever the virus is exposed to temperatures which are outside their specific temperature range the energy contained in the extra heat denatures or kills the virus . UV light also kills or denatures the virus (Its just a matter of biochemical kinetics on a submineature biochemical 'robot') .
(4) What I understand the Author of that list to be saying is that -- if you are being subjected to an attack of hoards of these infectious chemical agents it will help if you have hot liquids which will kill or denature them in the throat mainly , BEFORE they get drawn into the lungs .Here they exercise their entry methods into the cells which are relatively unprotected (because their primary function in the body , is gas exchange and that leaves them largely with an unprotected surface ).
(5) Are you likely to denature or kill all of the virus entering your mouth in this way ? Logic would tell you no , you are hoping to reduce them because although Hot Water , Hot Tea , Hot Coffee, Hot Turmeric ,Hot Rose Hip ,Hot 'Toddy' , Hot Beer etc at 60 Centigrade would definitely kill 100% on the bench surface if used 100% of the time ,
but the author recommends treatment only every 20 mins . I'm sure she is not intending to say that the denaturing rate would be 100% but you could expect it to be measurable enough to be beneficial .
(6) If the infection rate is in any way "dose dependant" then by reducing the dose below the infectious level then that would logicaly allow the immune system to be better able to handle the immediate attack and prepare itself better (over a reasonable time frame -- 12 hours ? ) and resist further attacks .
(7) "according to virus expert Gunnveig Grødeland at the University of Oslo." ---"temperature of the drink will have no effect on viral replication" .
The 'expert' is not on the same page as the Author IMO because the Author is not talking about the viruses when they have already entered the cell .The recommendation is for a possible method of preventing the virus from entering the cell where it will comandeer the reproduction mechanism of the cell genetic material .
Looks to me that 'expert' Grodeland is answering a question framed differently by the "refuting" University Professor than the one that the Author is trying to provide an answer for ie What is best to do to prevent the virus from infecting the cells in the lungs ? . It is either a miscommunication of the proper Question or a deliberate effort to sidestep the question ----IMO
(8) Medical Doctors almost universally give the advice that patients should drink lots of "liquids" (and the presumption is that they dont mean poisonous liquids or non water based liquids ) .
The reason thats given is that they help the lymph system to flush through the body's waste material .
I can find no reference anywhere that indicates that either hot or cold liquids do the job any differently .
What the refuting professor has to acknowledge is that the Author is saying "avoid drinking cold water" because if you drink cold water , the virus loves it and will stay active for much longer (which is why stocks of bacteria and viruses are generally refrigerated in storage) , and if you drink hot water the active viruses are reduced .
Because if the refuting Professor doesnt acknowledge that then he and the Author (or Authoress) are just not on the same page !

My belief here is that "try not to drink cold liquids" is pretty reasonable advice.

The Professor's statement "You have a body temperature of around 37 degrees, and that is whether you drink cold or hot drinks" is just plain wrong ! (here is just a very superficial treatment of the Question , https://www.answers.com/Q/Can_you_raise ... _beverages
You will find too that there are many "naturopaths" whose treatment relies on the strategy of raising the bodies temperature with hot liquids of varying compositions . Try drinking a glass of hot honey/chilli-pepper mix to get a rough idea of how effective these drinks can be at doing that!

The first part of his statement is also a bit "leaky" ie "
- I myself am an avid tea drinker and I think it is very good. But it does not protect against viruses."

Aside from the discussion about "Hot Tea" , if he is claiming that it is not possible to damage a virus with a "Tea" by "chemical" methods then that is not supported by research either . He may not be drinking the right tea ! .
There is good evidence that certain mushroom teas are quite effective against viruses . Mushrooms and viruses have been traditional enemies for millions of years .Its not at all surprising that mushrooms produce effective chemical antagonists against RNA .


"Viruses are not trolls , they do not burst in the sun "

Did the lady say they were trolls ?

Sounds like a leading comment ! -- Definitely viruses are not Trolls . 'Expert" Grodeland sounds like a troll . Is he not supposed to be Scientifically critiqueing the information ?

That is one thing that is known for certain . UV light will denature viruses .


"It is not that the virus attaches itself to hair and clothing which is the primary route of infection for the corona virus."

Did the lady say that it was a primary route ?


"I have never heard of people who have been infected by viruses from their clothes"

Neither have I . But I do know that the very first step in chemical decontamination is in removing all proximity of the offending agent . A very convenient way to do this is by washing .


What is this "Expert' an expert at researching ?

"However, the recommendation to hang clothes in the sunlight to get rid of any viruses is just nonsense, according to the researcher. "

If he recognises that statement as nonsense then he must be an Expert of Nonsense .

[agor95]

How is this virus moving around the world?

Here is the current state of play

https://www.flightradar24.com/39.15,-48.69/3

All the Best

[Robinhood46]

So shutting the borders means you can't cross them but flying over them is fine.

[agor95]

Your logic is sound and done with an Economy of words.

Boarders are all around us. In the UK they are around each house hold; starting today.
Along with so many others around the world.

We must protect the benefits of global trade and pay the costs; it seems.

All the Best

[TGM]

Your estimation of a million can be considered realistic under the circumstances...How many people losing their lives can be considered acceptable?...What is the probability that this virus will kill an unacceptable number of people?

It is almost to the point where it doesn't matter if it kills 1 or even 2 million people. The rest of the Nation must go back to work before we see deaths in the 10% range from the economic collapse.

The dums tonight proposed a helicopter-money package of $2.5 TRILLION to fix the COVID crisis!

Unbelievable! It will never pass the Senate and even if it did, the prez wouldn't sign it!

[ovyyus]

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