It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit

[Wheeler]

Could the ramp system cause a simple loss of friction when the ball that falls goes into the valley?
If so it would gain speed.

If it gained speed, and the other ball was loosing speed because it had the friction of the ramp at all times would this not make sense?

The falling ball also looses friction again at the top of the jump, thus the speed continues for micro seconds and it wins.

[ken_behrendt]

I am not impressed with the "ball ramp" experiment. Yes, the ball that travels through the valley does get to the level section before the other ball, but this is merely due to the fact that it experiences a momentary increase in velocity as it "falls" into the valley which allows it to horizontally outpace the other ball. I suspect that if the opposite experiment was tried, that is by causing the ball on the lower track to go up and over a small hill, then the ball would find itself losing the race with the ball on the level track.

Anyway, I think Bessler says somewhere that he considered rolling ball types of gravity wheels to be useless. That's good enough for me to look elsewhere...


ken

[rlortie]

Ken,

It does go up a hill, a hill of the same incline and amplitude it went down. It sill beats the shallow inclined ball. The acceleration gained going down is obviously not depleted going back up, which is of equal distance.

Ralph

[Jonathan]

Ralph, Ken meant this:

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[Michael]

Actually he doesn't say this Ken;

Anyway, I think Bessler says somewhere that he considered rolling ball types of gravity wheels to be useless. That's good enough for me to look elsewhere...

He says the typical rolling ball wheels like his examples in the beginning of M.T. don't work. That's all he says.

[SeaWasp]

Michael... On that note, have you had any progress with your research yet? :-) Just wondering when your going to reintroduce your topic section again?

[Fletcher]

There is an optimal curve shape that can be shown for a ball starting at position A & dropping over distance to position B. I can't remember the name for the study but it was a topic quite a while back. Maybe I can search it out somewhere on BB unless someone beats me to it. Brachistochrone ?

EDIT : http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... =7111#7111

In essence most assume that the fastest time between points A & B would be a straight line but in fact it is a curve. A deeper curve is faster than a shallow curve. I think it was an integration analysis & based on a ball having longer to accelerate initially b4 the horizontal friction forces eroded it's performance. Both balls were at the same velocity at the end of the run but as Tinhead said one arrived earlier i.e. took less time & covered a greater distance.

Isn't this the exact basis for jim_mich's last design that he discussed on the forum ?

[Jonathan]

Bessler says with MT9 that little is to be accomplished with ball weights like those seen in the previous MT drawings. That's why he goes on to weights with levers, belts, and many other things.

[jim_mich]

My failed design that I really thought would work was based on exactly this type of idea, only in a circular arrangement. Just like in the horizontal arrangement, a ball (or weight) can travel farther and faster around with a wheel and arrive at its start location sooner than the wheel. (Think ice skater spreading and retracting arms.) The problem is that even though it arrives sooner its velocity and energy is still the same. There is no gain in energy.

[Michael]

Hi Seawasp sometime in January.

Hi Fletcher. Actually it's the curve, but it's not the curve, it's the angle the weight is accelerated under that is attributed to it's speed. A curve where the weight begins at a 90 degree angle, or in otherwords a straight vertical fall before it starts to turn horizontally will be faster. It doesn't have to be a curve it could be just straight angles but then there would be losses due to impacts. One or two straight angles will only have a short distance of acceleration compared to the curve so they won't be as effective and many straight angles will begin to outweigh the distance of travel of a curve. A curve seems to combine the effectiveness of the sharpest angle and conservation of distance.

[Wheeler]

Michael
You seem to be very good at detail and wording.
I was wondering if anyone noticed in Bills drawings, that MT-9 is not a circle?
This may just be from the transfer of the post, but I was looking to see the details of Besslers drawings.
While going over it, I happened to notice it.
Bill is this actual, or is it just from the copy?
Thanks
edit
Drawing below shows it with it exaggerated in red to the right.

[ken_behrendt]

Wheeler...

I took Bill's image of MT9 and placed a perfect red circle around it, centered the circle, and then filled it in with blue color. Bill's image looks to me like it is indeed a perfect circle.

Perhaps your monitor's vertical or horizontal controls need to be adjusted? That could be introducing distortions into the images you are downloading.


ken

[ovyyus]

Wheeler, my versions are done using graphics software called CorelDraw - the circles are true. Transforming them into the little gif's on my website might have created a slight distortion, but I doubt you would notice it. It's more likely that the aspect ratio on your monitor might need adjusting - try downloading an image of a true circle and see what it looks like on your monitor.

[Wheeler]

Thanks Ken and Bill
That must be the problem,but where do I adjust my monitors aspect ratio, or
vertical & horizontal controls?

[rks1878]

Interesting reading of late about the rolling balls, &c. Didn't know such a thing could be.

Have my cable I hand now. I'm making some cable clamps from one half inch x 10/24 screws by drilling a 1/16 hole across the threads, then the nut will clamp the cable between two washers.

Been feeling a little under the weather the last few days and haven't accomplished much on anything.

All the testing done so far points to success...it is not yet obvious that this incredibly simple mechanism will fail to turn.