The Perfect Storm / BUSH

[ken_behrendt]

I also think that the atheist position has problems with it. In science we learn that one can not "prove" a negative...the best that one can say is that we do not have enough evidence to prove something does exist. While an atheist may claim that there is not enough evidence to prove the existence of God, he can not claim that this lack of evidence disproves the existence of God. In other words, lack of evidence is not equivalent to evidence of lack...

However, for many people the lack of supporting evidence automatically equals the denial of the possible reality of something. I see a lot of this in my UFO research. Just because extraterrestrials are not now offering Earthlings vacation trips to their home planet, that must surely mean that there is nothing to the whole subject! Besides, the orthodox physicists are against it and, since they are infallible, that should settle the matter for all times! Are those physicists the descendants of the same ones that claimed Bessler's wheels were impossible? I sometimes wonder.

As far as the motto "In God We Trust" is concerned, it did not appear on US coins until 1865 and was done as a sign of praise to God for ending the bloodshed of the Civil War. Those interested in the details should check out this link:

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-s ... trust.html.


ken

[winkle]

kind of interesting.....http://www.sauderzone.com/samizdatsix.htm

[Jonathan]

That guy's nuts, free trade provably and demonstrably increases the world market efficiency. Though it does usually mean layoffs in America, that is only because others can usually do those jobs more efficiently. In the long run, the growing pains will subside and everyone will be a little better off.
His belief that the US is deindustrializing because GM closed 12 factories (of 30,000 workers total) is a non sequitor.

[ken_behrendt]

Well, I read Dr. Sauder's article, and, while I do not agree with everything in it, I think he's right that the sudden "downsizing" of GM is an ominous sign. There are, I believe, many other reasons for it aside from the tidal wave of incoming imported goods that have added to the rate of collapse of the USA's industrial base. Currently, GM has 2.5 retirees for every employee and must pay billions of dollars in benefits for those retirees. The recent explosion in health care costs coupled with GM's apparent inability to provide the American car buyer with the kind of car that is now in demand (roomy, fuel efficient hybrids) has much to do with their woes. I do agree, however, that the loss of 30,000 jobs is just the tip of the iceberg. That loss will put downward pressure on all of the various industries that are dependent on this country's automotive industry and will probably lead to even more layoffs in the long run.

Jonathan, you said you believe in "free" trade. So do I, but only when it is also "fair" trade. The American industrial worker simply can not compete with his Asian counterpart as far as wages and benefits are concerned. As a result of this, I expect to see the industrial base that helped the middle class in this country grow continue to dwindle. As the tens of millions of displaced workers caught in this squeeze get forced down to lower class status, their anger will grow. In the coming years, I expect to see some really strange elections taking place. I predict that, perhaps, in another decade or so that the USA will start to look more like a socialist country than a capitalistic one! Can not happen? Don't bet on it. People in the cities are already desperate for employment and what recently happened over in France could be mild compared to what could happen in American cities when the desperation levels get high enough. Since about 95% of Americans live in cities, things could really get ugly.

I think that there is a solution to this hole we are digging ourselves into. It is a harsh solution, but one that I think the masses out there will eventually embrace. We will have to start learning to live within our means. That means no more government borrowing in the name of the American people. No more deficit financing or other accounting gimmicks designed to hide how really huge and progressively more unmanageable our National Debt is getting. And, no more consumer borrowing. Currently, the "war" in Iraq is costing about $800 million USD every single day! Most of that money is, as the author pointed out, being borrowed from Japan and China. It must all be paid back with interest or we risk and major downgrade in our government bonds and the financial meltdown that could follow that.

While we getting our depth bomb defused, we have to make sure that we do not continue to hemorrhage money through a chronic trade imbalance. A foreign company wants to sell its products here? Fine...let them invest in a plant here and employ Americans to make that product. An American company wants to manufacture an item overseas? Great, but they will not be permitted to sell it here!

And of course, the entire healthcare system in the USA has to be taken over by the federal government immediately. This should result in an immediate and drastic reduction in the cost of drugs, hospitalizations, etc. ...just as now exists in practically every other industrialized country in the world with the exception of the USA.

Yes, BIG changes are coming...what we see today with GM is only the beginning!


ken

[AgingYoung]

Pensions are a huge burden on corporations. From what I understand Ford owes their entire net worth to pensioners. City governments are another example of grossly underfunded pension plans. The truth is there's no way for governments and corporations to fund these pensions. The pension problems that governments have show up in your property and income taxes.

Another major problem with corporations is the compensation they give to high level employess (board members, ceo's etc.) GE is a fascinating one to look at. They owe twice as much as they're worth (debt). You have to ask where did all that jack go to. GE is no small company and that's a lot of jack.

A. Gene Young

[Jonathan]

Ken, though some of your reasoning is wrong, I wouldn't be surprized if this is right: "USA will start to look more like a socialist country than a capitalistic one!"

>Jonathan, you said you believe in "free" trade. So do I, but only when it is also "fair" trade. The American industrial worker simply can not compete with his Asian counterpart<
I don't believe in fair trade. If the Asians can do it better, then that worker had better find something that he can do better than them. Until God returns, it is right that his livelyhood be tied to his productivity, efficiency, and effort.

[winkle]

Currently, the "war" in Iraq is costing about $800 million USD every single day! Most of that money is, as the author pointed out, being borrowed from Japan and China.
ken

Ken if we wind up in a war with china do you think they will finance our side......they could win with fireing a shot ....just cash in all of the bogus IOUs

[winkle]

prase the lord ....pass the minimum wage.....god bless america

[AgingYoung]

they could win with fireing a shot ....just cash in all of the bogus IOUs

If the American government owed you a thousand dollars that would be no problem. They could readily pay it and there wouldn't be a problem. If the American government owed you a trillion dollars you would have a serious problem if you tried to collect it. Combined with the fact that for America to pay such a debt would be devastating to the American economy you might add the fact that the American economy is 40% of the world's economy. Any country that would want to 'cash' in their bonds would be shooting themselves in the foot along with the rest of the world's foot. I don't think it would happen. I also think that America would tell someone wanting to do that to take a hike.

Gene

[rlortie]

Let look at a little history.

Bethlehem steel is gone.
kaiser aluminum and his shipbuilding is gone.
Briggs and Stratton has gone south.
The three vehicles I own were built in Canada, Mexico and Japan.
I never hear of US Steel but can not verify if they exist.
All the US manufactured TV's are gone.
The number one export from the East coast in 2001 was recycled cardboard.
The majority of our soft wood lumber and related products comes from Canada. I live not far from Union Pacific's main East West line. Over 45% of the rail cars that pass are Canadian, even the grain trains.

I blame it all on the tree huggers and the environment lobbyist's.
Its pretty hard to make steel, aluminum and and autos without plants to produce the raw materials. Its pretty smart to want a car or live in a new house but then complain about cutting down a tree or firing up a coke blast furnace. Even the paint used on an autos came under fire.

Industry was short sighted and did not anticipate the environmentalist Gaining the power they achieved, Now I am told when and when not, I can build a small fire to roast weiners. If you want to cast an engine block you have to go somewhere else to do it.

The only trade Balance I see us having is that the biggest percentage of Alaska oil is going to Japan while we import from the East and Mexico.

Ralph

[winkle]

they could win with fireing a shot ....just cash in all of the bogus IOUs

If the American government owed you a thousand dollars that would be no problem. They could readily pay it and there wouldn't be a problem. If the American government owed you a trillion dollars you would have a serious problem if you tried to collect it. Combined with the fact that for America to pay such a debt would be devastating to the American economy you might add the fact that the American economy is 40% of the world's economy. Any country that would want to 'cash' in their bonds would be shooting themselves in the foot along with the rest of the world's foot. I don't think it would happen. I also think that America would tell someone wanting to do that to take a hike.

Gene

.......so you think they would finance a war against their self................war is hell......... mabe we need a new rule.....can't go to war against eny country you can't pay

[AgingYoung]

I'm saying that you can't get blood from a turnip and the turnip of America is 40% of the whole garden. If you destroy America the rest of the world is going to be in big hurt; if you could destroy America. It wouldn't be easy nor would it be smart.

A. Gene Young

[rlortie]

Being an old timer, I remember an old Japanese saying. "If we can't beat you at war, then we will buy you out".

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

The bottom line of all this, gentlemen, is that the good ol' USA is in one heck of a jam. We're like the Titanic shortly after it hit that iceberg. Currently, we are being kept afloat via the pumping action of BILLIONS of borrowed dollars per day! That can not continue forever. And, when it finally ends, all hell is going to break loose!

I advise all of my friends to start stockpiling a small reserve of gold bullion coins (I prefer the Canandian 1 troy oz. Mapleleafs myself). When the big flush finally comes and all of your other assets are not worth the paper they are printed on, that yellow metal could mean the difference between life and death for you and your loved ones.

How'd we get into this mess? The reasons are many and go back decades. Going off of the gold standard in the early '70's and allowing our currency to "float" against other world currencies did not help. Runaway government borrowing to finance wars all over the planet was another nail in the coffin. And, not placing the healthcare system in the USA under government control was another.

However, even at this eleventh hour, I think it's still possible to keep the USS America from disappearing beneath the waves. But, it will require some really tough government policies and it will require them as soon as possible!


ken

[winkle]

relax Ken i think bush has another tax cut for the top 2% on the way