Game Plan

[getterdone]

Oooops
Just noticed that Ed had covered that subject at the top of the page

[Fletcher]

Minor evg, if you use Bessler's wheel as an example.

It was relatively large with small power delivery - he had decades to maximize its performance, even assuming a one directional wheel was more powerful than his last wheels.

There would be the normal profit taking from the energy markets as they assessed the financial & commercial risk - then they'd bounce right back, once the market analysts understood its low potential to be threatening to established Energy suppliers was.

I'd say its impact would be comparable to solar, wind, tide & other technologies - they have a place, as an alternative to mainstream, until efficiency goes up & cost come down.

Nothing really compares to fossil, hydro, nuclear, thermal & other large scale energy dense producers.

Now if Bessler's wheel, or any FE device could power a home for its small size then that would get everybody's attention but Besler's wheel was a country mile short of that capacity.

So, build a low power 'starter' as a demonstrator, then proceed to find out its true potential to replace traditional [& invested] Energy producing technologies.

I think many of us make the assumption that ANY FE/OU PMM is automatically going to be able to be scaled up to rival nuclear - whilst it true that the production cost per kilowatt unit could be very low per household it doesn't mean that the technology has energy density to actually achieve that, & probably wouldn't - so power supply utilities etc are quite safe charging you & recouping investment & making profit for their shareholders.

If a magnetic FE device were ever invented then that might change the playing field IMO.

[getterdone]

Fletcher, for us that live in the welthier nations of the world, it'll probably only mean another source of clean energy ,cheap and abundent. For people that live in the poorer nations of the world, a turning wheel producing a little electricity could improve there lives by a country mile.

[pequaide]

Both parties in Washington are right now willing to pass a law that takes 50% of everything you have acquired over your entire life including the corporation you own. And they are not even red faced about it, for some reason the working rich owe it to their constituency. They have taken over GM, Chrysler, Banking, Insurance groups, and the Medical Industry. I am not sure the old rules still apply, now they want to tell us what we can eat and how much of it.

Free energy is something of which nations rise and fall. It is not like patenting a toaster. Governments will step in and they will not respect other nation’s patents. Get the concept out there and slice the pie up as fast as you can, and hope you get a little crumb. Even a crumb will be worth 100 million dollars.

[ovyyus]

Well if Jim is correct about his CF power source theory (I have reservations) then maximum power output might only be a matter of design and materials. In that case output might be unlimited if a feedback mechanism was somehow employed. That would mean a small device might power a wrist watch, or a home, or a battleship, or a bomb!

Yep, no worries securing and controlling a patent on that :P

[Fletcher]

Fletcher, for us that live in the wealthier nations of the world, it'll probably only mean another source of clean energy ,cheap and abundant.

For people that live in the poorer nations of the world, a turning wheel producing a little electricity could improve there lives by a country mile.

Indeed it could & that'd be worthwhile.

Dang, next they'd want to keep their food cold & have a washing machine & watch tv - they do that now with village generators but who wants to pay for fuel, eh !

Well if Jim is correct about his CF power source theory (I have reservations) then maximum power output might only be a matter of design and materials. In that case output might be unlimited if a feedback mechanism was somehow employed. That would mean a small device might power a wrist watch, or a home, or a battleship, or a bomb!

Yep, no worries securing and controlling a patent on that :P

If Jim's or Bessler's wheels, for example, were powered by Cf's, then you'd expect them to have a high rpm to output ratio - ATEOTD, whatever force is employed must do mechanical work - that's not much work to run a wrist watch, but quite a bit more to run a house, & even more to run a battleship - I just don't think, even with modern technologies, design & materials, that this sort of energy density could be achieved using gravity & even a feed-back Cf system, if it could be done.

So, no worries securing and controlling a patent on that :P

[jim_mich]

If Jim's or Bessler's wheels, for example, were powered by Cf's, then you'd expect them to have a high rpm to output ratio

A wheel driven by CF (with no gravity involved) will have a specific speed at which it operates, depending upon its dimensions, just like a pendulum operates at a specific speed according to its dimensions.

[Fletcher]

Yes, I'd concede that Jim - but to have a horizontal one [not using gravity] would be a major step forward & technical advancement from what Bessler displayed - sometimes the leap is made to his commissioned horizontal windmill but that would be pure speculation to say he could have built a horizontal Cf's PMM.

A small diameter horizontal wheel could have a fast rpm but weights still have to change position internally, & the Cf's able to be bled off to do external mechanical work & reset itself & this takes time, so the rpm can't be that quick ? - conversely a large diameter wheel could have a slower rpm with much more time for things internally to move around etc - which one would be more powerful for its volume [energy density] & wouldn't that be also dependent on how far each internal weight traveled [radius change] times the force it generated, less resetting costs & frictions ?

[ovyyus]

...just like a pendulum operates at a specific speed according to its dimensions.

Most resonant systems (oscillators) can be pumped (amplified) to higher energy levels.

[jim_mich]

A wheel driven by CF (with no gravity involved) could be vertical or horizontal.

Yes, a small diameter wheel would run much faster, just like a short pendulum swings faster.

A larger diameter wheel would run slower, but pound for pound, it would produce much more power.

Comparing two wheels, one twice as large and twice as thick, the larger one would be eight times as massive. Each weights would produce twice as much CF due to the radius being twice as big. Thus you would have sixteen times as much CF produced by each weight, assuming a same speed. But each weight would need to oscillate twice as far, thus taking more time. The math get complicated, but the bottom line would be a larger wheel would produce much more power per pound of wheel.

[justsomeone]

If a group of inventors, from several countries, achieve a working wheel together, where would it be patented?

[rlortie]

In any and all countries where you see a 'Coca Cola' and a 'McDonald's' ad.

[Unbalanced]

Great Answer Ralph

[AB Hammer]

Agreed Ralph

[wheelrite]

I allways thought Bessler made his wheel as large as the room allowed to get as much power as possible to demonstrate a 'decent' amount of work being done (to impress), like lifting a heavy box of rocks all day, something one man couldnt do. He could have made a smaller size wheel say four feet dia. and ganged up maybe six of them, but that loses some of the larger radius advantage (assuming cf driven?)etc. and the long or segmented axle problems, multiple bearings, higher speed (more likely breakage), higher wear rates etc. Simpler to build one big one. Does point to cf being involved.
Regards
Jon