How Difficult can it be?

[rasselasss]

Those of us making this imaginary scenic european overland journey to pay homage at the birthplace of our "Bessler",..some will have crossed ocean(s)to arrive at the mainland..i came by "Eurostar"(euro tunnel)and having spent most of the trip in the "Drinks/refreshment "carriage ,i am currently "sobering up" in Calais...............Now,lets look at the configuration or shape of the weight (singular),...remembering its neccessity to "roll on/roll off and in no manner to impede/slow down the motion of our rotating wheel,placement and removal IS important (this very/very rough sketch in no way proportionately scaled...i'm still sobering up)....so "A" and "B"..... show a ball with a shaft through it's"axis"and a roller type with a shaft through it's "axis"(which one to use will determine our rim fixed shape)......now i'm sure you're saying whats that kitchen utensil(C)....laziness on my part.....but we "NEED"to collect this descending weight and return it as per sketch on page 2.....we also NEED a similar "fork"shape that will fit either side of the wheel rim without touching/impeding the rotating wheel when its arc up/down movement is operational .....thus far we are in possession of how to "collect."..............so NOW to solve the simple mechanics required to raise the "weight"up and its deliverance to the circumference of the rim of the wheel also the rims desired reception and disposal permanent shape....this mech.MUST also be capable to return to collect ...have a "think"about this as Iacob Alex would say.. think of the simplest way ..really its not complex ..Look at previous posts to refresh....NOTE....not the solution but we are on our way....

[iacob alex]

.....is an interesting question.In my opinion , not quite so difficult.

If we begin our study of gravity free fall with a pendulum , step by step ,(00:00 to 01:54) , as :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ02MjqBk7s

...we can introduce and play , some basic concepts:

-a centered flywheel (heavy hub) as a temporary in-out storage of kinetic energy ("dam" motion )
-constant arm pendulum
-variable arm pendulum
-counterweight variable pendulum

If we connect this tests with "g" paradox/"falling chimney"/falling stick"/,we can introduce in the same "leverage family" , an old gravity simple machine (the trebuchet ) , as a natural expression of a "perpetual " dynamics design (Sun_Earth_Moon oscillatory leverage}.

The last step for a gravity powered simple machine , in my opinion , can be simply a "modified" trebuchet.

Al_ex

[rasselasss]

So,we've had a free Breakfast and Alex "Mon Ami"has given us a free lunch,he's taken the Express Train to Saxony...His ability to "see"the device required is to be admired and if you read his "blog"he's probably passed through Gera,Merseburg on his way to Kassel for the Main Course......The key words i would add to Alex's blog for this mech.are "modified".."see-saw".".trip lever"..."slight"..."overbalance"..."counterbalance"...as Alex stated it's not difficult.......Meanwhile i'm en route through France to Belguim,stopping off in the Somme area to visit relatives in residence there(link)....When we arrive at Saxony,we'll examine how to make the transition to a full sized wheel able to perform work......again the solution is simplicity....

[rasselasss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPtkzdbv90

[iacob alex]

Hi Rasselasss!
I wish you "bonne voyage" in "green France" and "willkommen in Germany" , in order to make a thorough examination of something useful for this forum :Bessler's "secrecy".

If we , as humans are the result of Nature's "imagination" , the perpetuum mobile concept , can be an another "image" : our problem is to fix it , looking carefully around us to the natural mechanics.

Al_ex

[rasselasss]

Now,having arrived on our "virtual"journey at Zittau,i am staying at Hotel "Pension am Markt",in my ignorance i thought it did cheap rates for Pensioners..alas i think it means "House on the Market"..its central,everything within minutes of walking .."eating houses,Inns,Railway station also a Museum which houses "The Lenten Cloths or veil"..the people are friendly and generous in speaking english to a non german speaking tourist...but mention Bessler,there is a silence and i receive a look of "pity"which we have all experienced one time or another when we introduce the subject of P.M. into normal conversation....None others have arrived .....I was'nt born yesterday ....so in the theme of Bessler....there are many "red herrings" in this thread but none the less those with knowledge can easily see the "way"....Auf wiedersehen..

[iacob alex]

Hi Rasselasss !
Speaking about "phantoms" (this time in the "house" of the "mystery" ) , seems to be differently in Germany , than in Ireland.

Anyway , I wish you a nice trip and have "fresh" eyes for Bessler's slight remaining traces of "heritage".

Really , how difficult can it be?!
Al_ex

[rasselasss]

Alex,in this design,the fork is always in contact with the "roller"type weight...when the fork lifts on the "upward"movement the "rake"for lead in/out of the "teeth"at a glance may look to have a tendency to "jam"or interrupt the motion and the rim will have advanced 1/4-1/2 turn before the weight is replaced. to allow the mech.with its slow upward motion to begin the "weight drop-roll in"....because the wheel has a "slow" revolving speed say 10-15 r.p.m.the problem is eliminated of the "tooth"tendency to push the roller weight out......a very rough sketch to show the "priniciple"not in proportion etc.....it uses the "minimum"number of moving parts which is the aim...hope the sketch explains it better than my dyslectic written explanation....

[iacob alex]

Hi !
To have an answer to your description/sketch , I need to know.
To know , firstly I must understand.
There is a great difference between knowing and understanding : you can know a lot about something and not really understand it.

The best answer comes with a test of your arrangement.

Al_ex

[rasselasss]

This is another rough sketch based on Page 4 of this thread on the Brequet escapement ...as in the previous post, minimum number of moving parts and remembering we are not asking this wheel to do any "work"...just continue to revolve ...

[rasselasss]

Brequet idea ..As above but,using repelling faced magnets with non-magnetic structure mech.....

[rasselasss]

This is an idea i looked at last year ...Hoop and stick design where "A"just clips the "sprigs"on the wheel rim...now and again..faults again are obvious......by showing these failed designs its possible someone here might re-hash or have use to solve what they are at...

[rasselasss]

In one method or another most Designs on this Forum can be sumed up by complication or otherwise ...by lightening then ladening to create overbalance to allow motion to continue and as we know too well..easier said than done ....in the past i have tried Pendulums (heavy and light)as per Milkovic's design but like a spring when asked to do "work"they soon "run down"and stop giving "favours".........To me the best "starting point"is the simple balanced see-saw and how to lighten/laden alternating ends to achieve continuous motion....again easier said than done ....but it's not impossible...Google..Yomega(brain) yo-yo ...may give some here an idea..

[iacob alex]

Hi Rasselasss !
Our aim is to obtain "self" -motion due to gravity fall (not to forget inertia).

An inverted pendulum is the symbol of gravity unbalance.

If we intend to play (and "develop" this idea... ) , this fulcrum-arm- mass arrangement, it's the most simple experiment.

The first step : a full up-down (0*-180*) free fall of an inverted pendulum...it's so common.

The second step : a longer (>360*) continuous rotation of an inverted (variable ) pendulum...there are some "hints" on net.

The third (and last!) step : to obtain the "self" - motion of this physical pendulum equivalent as a variable leverage , due to gravity fall and in-out storage of rotational inertia .

The natural model , you can find on the sky mechanics : the Sun-Earth-Moon leverage.

Al_ex

[rasselasss]

I agree Alex. ,Gravity fall and how to "capture"or utilise whats happening at that "window of time"....i include a rough sketch of "chatoic unbalance"...where A and B swivel plates of a set of balance scales with counterweights which also move as each side receives a "bash"by the equal weights on a simple rope pulley ...one up/one down .....note the A and B COUNTER WEIGHTED PLATES ARE HEAVIER THAN THE DESCENDING PULLEY WEIGHTS AND assist to THROW THE WEIGHTS BACK UP FOR CONTINUITY...setting off the sequence of the rising and descending pulley weights.......Now if the Bridge of the scales was fixed(static)...with just counterweighted plates ,it might give interesting results....sketch may explain better.......Good Luck..