Another claim to a working device...

[daanopperman]

Hi old Nick ,

If I am not mistaken Bessler referred to his wheels as Pendulum Machines .

[Ed]

You are mistaken.

[Grimer]

As Bill would remind us, what one believes and what has been proven are two different things. I think Bessler succeeded but he still didn't prove it (other than covered wheel tests). To date no one has, and these days the type of tests Bessler used to prove he could keep a wheel turning would not fly as proof of ultimate success. Too many ways today to fake things, as we've seen by people making youtube videos. RAR hasn't even done the equivalent of what Bessler did back then, so why should anyone give them the benefit of the doubt? The answer is, they shouldn't!
...

Hardly fair.

RAR has shown the mechanism which is something Bessler never did.

No one has shown if that mechanism does what is claimed. But no one has shown it doesn't.

[Ed]

Maybe you'd like to start a countdown for them?

Oh wait, this thread started on 2/6/2013 reporting the news "New Gravity-Driven Generator Promised...", and still nothing but a hulk of metal.

I think it's more than fair.

[FunWithGravity2]

As Bill would remind us, what one believes and what has been proven are two different things. I think Bessler succeeded but he still didn't prove it (other than covered wheel tests). To date no one has, and these days the type of tests Bessler used to prove he could keep a wheel turning would not fly as proof of ultimate success. Too many ways today to fake things, as we've seen by people making youtube videos. RAR hasn't even done the equivalent of what Bessler did back then, so why should anyone give them the benefit of the doubt? The answer is, they shouldn't!
...

Hardly fair.

RAR has shown the mechanism which is something Bessler never did.

No one has shown if that mechanism does what is claimed. But no one has shown it doesn't.

I don't understand what is so hard for everyone to get, It is the builders responsibility to show a provable and obvious gain in energy. NOT everyone elses job to prove it doesn't. CLAIM,if you make it prove it.


Drop a ball from four feet and show it rise higher.

Drop it at 9.8 m/s and show it accelerate faster without added energy.

Uses a lever to lift a weight higher with its own weight.

Whatever, just don't use some vague explantion of hypothetical energy gain based on convoluted understandings of multiple past laws of phyiscs as your only explantion and expext everyone to belive you.Telling people your going to use the snap crackle and pop energy from the orbital despin centrifuagl force pumpkin chunkin gravity multiplication effect just doesn't count as proving it.

Making a scientific claim isn't "innocent until proven guilty" claims must be substantiated in the scientific community.


Now if people want to present a "hypothetical theory" thats fine, but they will get as much attention as the canibis haze within which they formulated it until they can substantiate or make relevent.

Dave

[Unbalanced]

FWG2 writes:

Whatever, just don't use some vague explantion of hypothetical energy gain based on convoluted understandings of multiple past laws of phyiscs as your only explantion and expext everyone to belive you.Telling people your going to use the snap crackle and pop energy from the orbital despin centrifuagl force pumpkin chunkin gravity multiplication effect just doesn't count as proving it.

LOL. That was well put. This topic is getting to be like reading about flight MH307. I keep tuning in with the hope of finding anything substantive and come away with ever more speculation.

Show me the gain.

[AB Hammer]

Until it is shown running and then examined to explain why and proved to all. It has to be understood as a failed attempt.

[Tarsier79]

They built 2. Two failed attempts.

[Furcurequs]

Unbalanced,

I meant to post this sooner. Sorry to hear about your step father.

Also, I agree with you that a video would not be proof of RAR's claim and that they really do need endorsements from credible members of academia if they are going to be taken seriously.

I mean, really, if you had a working device would you want it to be endorsed by those running "free energy" websites who treat almost every claim they run across as if it is valid? (...not mentioning any names, of course. ...lol)

Those who want to take every claim seriously - and who also seem to be quite prone to believing that there are major conspiracies against "free energy" inventors - are the last people you would want to endorse your claim. As a matter of fact, if you had a working device, the very people who the conspiracy theorists see as their enemies are THE people who you would want to speak out on your behalf.

I want those mean old mainstream scientists to have to say, "Wow! We honestly didn't believe this was possible, but this fellow's actually done it!"

I would want James Randi, Eric Krieg and their cadre of skeptics to have to chant in unison, "Wow" We honestly didn't believe this was possible, but this fellow has actually done it!"

...but, anyway, back to the RAR stuff...

If we were dealing with rational people, then the size of the machines, their complexity and their obvious high cost to construct would lead one to believe that they knew what they were doing.

...but then there is all the stuff that leads me to believe that they aren't rational actors...

...like how they don't seem to have any real academics endorsing them.

...like how they are taking out newspaper and magazine advertisements instead of going right to the news reporters.

...like how they are making arguments about the validity of their claims based upon old yellowed treatises on thermodynamics and the "eternal" energy of the sun.

...like their not so coherent or well written patent claims.

If they had the least bit of credibility, they wouldn't have to use so much of their money to build big or buy any advertisements, either. With a truly working tabletop sized device they could have something like this:

The front page of major news magazines.




http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/upl ... 8-1989.jpg

I bought that middle one when it hit the stands. All that took was people who were normally considered to be credible - real mainstream scientists - making a claim.

That particular claim is, of course, still a bit controversial to this day - but apparently most in the mainstream feel it was just shoddy experimental work on their part.

The original claim was certainly big news for a while, though. Imagine what it would be like if the claim was undeniable.

Anyway, I've probably expressed some of this before, but there it is again.

Take care.

Dwayne

[Unbalanced]

All great points Dwayne. I am more convinced than ever that there is some serious delusion involved here.

I feel for Renato's kids watching their inheritance going up in huge piles of steel folly. I hope they continue to get the rain they need to keep those soy beans producing.

...but then there is all the stuff that leads me to believe that they aren't rational actors...

...like how they don't seem to have any real academics endorsing them.

...like how they are taking out newspaper and magazine advertisements instead of going right to the news reporters.

...like how they are making arguments about the validity of their claims based upon old yellowed treatises on thermodynamics and the "eternal" energy of the sun.

...like their not so coherent or well written patent claims.

If they had the least bit of credibility, they wouldn't have to use so much of their money to build big or buy any advertisements, either. With a truly working tabletop sized device they could have something like this:

Well put.

If their claims were valid, why not bring in the science/physics community?
I read in an online Brazilian newspaper that RAR was giving their Porto Allegro facility a make-over in preparation for a major news conference.

I am all the more convinced that there is no substance to their claims.

[Ed]

LOL

[Grimer]

All great points Dwayne. I am more convinced than ever that there is some serious delusion involved here.

I feel for Renato's kids watching their inheritance going up in huge piles of steel folly. I hope they continue to get the rain they need to keep those soy beans producing.

...but then there is all the stuff that leads me to believe that they aren't rational actors...

...like how they don't seem to have any real academics endorsing them.

...like how they are taking out newspaper and magazine advertisements instead of going right to the news reporters.

...like how they are making arguments about the validity of their claims based upon old yellowed treatises on thermodynamics and the "eternal" energy of the sun.

...like their not so coherent or well written patent claims.

If they had the least bit of credibility, they wouldn't have to use so much of their money to build big or buy any advertisements, either. With a truly working tabletop sized device they could have something like this:

Well put.

If their claims were valid, why not bring in the science/physics community?
I read in an online Brazilian newspaper that RAR was giving their Porto Allegro facility a make-over in preparation for a major news conference.

I am all the more convinced that there is no substance to their claims.

Interesting.

Could you give me a link to that, please.

[Unbalanced]

Hello Grimer,

I stand corrected:

I have translated and read a great many articles about RAR Energia in recent months and after going back to find my source, I realize that this press conference statement came from a UK forum (moletrap) on which you appear to be a member.

The comment may be found here:

http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comment ... 41&page=55

[Grimer]

Thanks for that, Unbalanced.

I am indeed a member and have contributed positive comments to that thread in the face of very many jeers from a very cynical bunch.

You have got to that piece of very recent and encouraging info before I have.

Well done.

[Grimer]

...
...like how they are taking out newspaper and magazine advertisements instead of going right to the news reporters.
...

Well, the latest bit of news in the link about them tarting the place up in preparation for a news conference sounds as though they are going to do just that.