Bessler's use of Gravity

[ken_behrendt]

James Kelly wrote:

Jim-Mich. and others. By continuous motion. I mean exactly that. It does not stop, unless I stop it. What is more it is self starting.

and:

some way or another all lose sight of the first statement I made. this unit has run continuiously for 3 days. just a tad over 72 hours. It did have some problems and in my opinion after I shut it down, was, this will not do. and three of us have been in research and developement ever since.

Well, it sounds like you HAD, past tense, a working wheel, but that you do not have one now. That wheel, although it worked, still required additional modification for some reason.

Of course, without that wheel to examine, one must, to use Ralph's words, just have to "trust" that you did. There is no way of proving that you either did or did not achieve continuous rotation.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, so I will assume that you did, in fact, have a working wheel. However, all I can say is that if I was lucky enough to obtain a model that ran for over 72 hours, then I would keep it in a sealed room and would not touch a single bolt on it. That wheel would be kept to serve both as an inspiration and a pattern for any future modified versions.

In any event, good luck at re-achieving another working design.



Ralph...

I was sorry to hear that your implant is having problems. We will all be hoping for your successful and speedy recovery from the procedure to install a new device.



ken

[jim_mich]

I must remember that it their idea and not mine. I do not share my own ideas, as I have the required resources and mechanical aptitude to take care of myself. As Steve has stated he will leave the actual building of the device to James and I. He will not know if and when a runner is ready until it is accomplished. At that time all the legalitys will be consummated.

Ralph, If the idea is NOT yours then (in the US) any patent on the idea cannot be yours. Only the true inventor(s) may patent an idea or device in the US. The same goes for Steve. Now if you added some small significant detail (called claims in patents) then you are a co-inventor and share the right to patent the idea.

What confuses me is Mr. Kelly states he "had" a working wheel. This was before Steve arrived on the scene. So it must be assumed that what Steve added was not in Mr. Kelly's original design which he says ran for three days. I'm a little confused. What date was it that this wheel ran for three days? Was it recently or was it in the far misty past? This date would be significant in history.

[james kelly]

Jim- Mich; go back to page 2. I had the unit running on JULY 28,29, and 30th of 2006. I only have reference to THIS wheel. At the present time it will still run , but not as WE would wish. Anything more will have to wait. So don't ask. James L. Kelly

[bluesgtr44]

And so can the third member, whom I believe is Steve.

Well, we tried to make it hard for ya, Jim. :-D

At work right now and just lurking...will be off Sunday and catch up a bit.

No, I have not personaly met James and have not seen his wheel, only pictures. The last one was a monster...I believe it would lift 150 lb. man off the ground if it was to cycle. So, only through pics can I verify that James is building.


Steve

[1712]

"I had the unit running on JULY 28,29, and 30th of 2006. I only have reference to THIS wheel. At the present time it will still run , but not as WE would wish. Anything more will have to wait. So don't ask. James L. Kelly"

Scott

On Besslerwheel.com there is always a quote from history by some revered person.

Perhaps you could put some of rlortie's and james' statements there, such as the one above.

LOL

[rlortie]

jim_mich,

[quote="rlortie"I must remember that it their idea and not mine. I do not share my own ideas, as I have the required resources and mechanical aptitude to take care of myself. As Steve has stated he will leave the actual building of the device to James and I. He will not know if and when a runner is ready until it is accomplished. At that time all the legalitys will be consummated.

Ralph, If the idea is NOT yours then (in the US) any patent on the idea cannot be yours. Only the true inventor(s) may patent an idea or device in the US. The same goes for Steve. Now if you added some small significant detail (called claims in patents) then you are a co-inventor and share the right to patent the idea.

The Key word in your above quote is the word true inventor(s) with emphisis on the (s). Each has the option to claim co-inventor status if any member should default on our mutual agreement. As such we are deemed co-inventors of equall portions. Even this post released to over 300 current forum members can be used for public record.

As for your statement about "If the idea is NOT yours" I believe that the first one to reach the patent office with a viable application would hold the better chance. In broad context, you word this as though all I have to do is sit at the patent office door and when you enter I follow and say that was my idea! I cannot believe that it would be that easy to prove rights to another mans idea.

James and I were already working on the concept. When Steve inadvertently started posting about it. By mutual concent the concept belongs to all three of us. After all who can substantiate which of us conceived the idea and who will be the first to prove or disprove its functionality.

We all can hold claims as a derivative is held by each of us. As I stated my design may be considered the same concept as James. The method of mechanical transference (weights) is not. We deliberately build differently to cover more ground. I do not consider it productive to build a wheel in Indiana and the exact same in Oregon.

As of this date it is not official but will be properly registered and licensed upon completion of a runner. That is an Enterprise under the name of
"KelLorWill Enterprise". a research and development Co. A private firm consisting of James Kelly, Ralph Lortie and Steve Williams. As a company any an all patentable products showing a similarity to present research shall be considered built on company time and therefore the sole propriety of said company. Proper papers will be filed with the cooperate commissioner in each of our home states.

Any one partner that developes a design of another concept need not included such idea as company property at their option.

Ralph

[Michael]

If Steve wishes to contact me in private I will be able to tell him in under an hour if his concept will work or not and why. I will save Steve months of possible wasted time. I promise here and now not to reveil his concept to anyone without his permission.

Steve can take this letter post as a legal testimony.

[1712]

"As of this date it is not official but will be properly registered and licensed upon completion of a runner. That is an Enterprise under the name of
"KelLorWill Enterprise". a research and development Co. A private firm consisting of James Kelly, Ralph Lortie and Steve Williams. As a company any an all patentable products showing a similarity to present research shall be considered built on company time and therefore the sole propriety of said company. Proper papers will be filed with the cooperate commissioner in each of our home states. "

So is it a corporation? LLC? Sole Proprietorship?
Does it even exist yet?

LOL!!!! What a scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bessler007]

For the love of Scotts Sufferance Wharf, what is going on here? Steve documented his idea at Steve's street. Anyone could take a look at it. Arna nothing proprietary about it.

Without substantial confirmation the wheel doesn't work. Mr. Kelly said

I had the unit running on JULY 28,29, and 30th of 2006.

and Ralph said

As I stated my design may be considered the same concept as James.

but Ralph also said

For others reading this, do not interpret that I have or am close to having a runner.

At this point there is not good reason to believe anyone has a working wheel. Steve's idea needs work and anyone could incorporate it into their design.

☯

[james kelly]

BESSLER007; Go ahead and try it. If you think that it is all glory,fame.and fortune, go right ahead. I think that instead of pictures ,I wiil make a long movie this afternoon. 007 You can build one all you want. As far as that goes all of you can build one. It may help our cause tremendously. WM2D will NOT produce it. An actual build must be done. GOOD LUCK!

[bluesgtr44]

If Steve wishes to contact me in private I will be able to tell him in under an hour if his concept will work or not and why. I will save Steve months of possible wasted time. I promise here and now not to reveil his concept to anyone without his permission.

If the concept was finalized....we are not there yet. I do, however appreciate the offer Michael. You would probably be one I would consider for this.

LOL!!!! What a scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...OK...

Steve documented his idea at Steve's street. Anyone could take a look at it. Arna nothing proprietary about it.

Please do...what is on Steve's street are concepts, not solutions...but, you are welcome to use anything there. I still stand by my thinking of individual "pieces parts" and yes, I could be wrong....won't be the first time.

I have seen Ralph's shop...he builds them, no kidding!


Steve

[jim_mich]

Agent 007, once again you are the correct level headed one here!

As for your statement about "If the idea is NOT yours" I believe that the first one to reach the patent office with a viable application would hold the better chance. In broad context, you word this as though all I have to do is sit at the patent office door and when you enter I follow and say that was my idea! I cannot believe that it would be that easy to prove rights to another mans idea.

In a small way this is true. But you must back up your claim of first priority with proof. Such proof can be witnesses and notoriesed documents. In the US the first person to invent has the right to patent the idea. Those who assist but don't think up the invention don't have any right to patent. This is the law! From what I've read so far I get the impression that that the idea was thought up (invented) by James. Then Steve came up with something similar. And Ralph states clearly that

I must remember that it their idea and not mine. I do not share my own ideas, ...

so it would seem that Ralph in NOT a co-inventor. The patent laws are very clear on this. Only the true inventor may patent in the US. Those that assist the inventoer have no rights to patent unless they added some concept of their own to the invention.

The first to walk through the patent office door might not be the first to invent. If a short time later someone else walks through the door with the same idea and can prove that he had the idea first then he has a good chance of obtaining the patent over the first to file guy. This is why it is important to keep good witnessed records. If you doubt me then pay a visit to a patent lawyer. Or go on line at the US Patent and Trademark Office.


From what little I've seen and heard I don't think anyone has a working wheel yet. There is too much that smells fishy to me. But I could be wrong. In which case I wish all the best of luck.

[rlortie]

If Steve wishes to contact me in private I will be able to tell him in under an hour if his concept will work or not and why. I will save Steve months of possible wasted time. I promise here and now not to reveil his concept to anyone without his permission.

Steve can take this letter post as a legal testimony.

Nice try Michael, but you have already seen as much about it as Steve has posted, as well as anyone else on this forum who has read "Steves Street". I believe that I also am capable of saving him months of work. If need be I am prepared to put months of work into it. To my knowledge James and I are the only ones fully aware of the concept. I have not heard or seen of anyone else on this forum with the aptitude or perception to figure it out, and imply as such.

If you could tell him in under an hour, why did you not do so almost or better than two months ago? Where as Steve was not aware of what he posted I do not believe you would save him months working on something that he was not fully working on in the first place. And it is obvious that you did not understand it when he did make the post. Otherwise you would not be pulling out of the research endeavor.

I do not think that Steve is interested in having anybody look at this particular idea. After all no one else came forward and told him that he was inadvertently treading on a possible working concept. To my knowledge James and myself were the only ones who were aware of the possible potential. I state that because we were already involved with the concept. partially due to Steves diligent research into the acceleration of Besslers wheels at start up.

Any one can claim propriety if they can figure out what is not posted by Steve. Best of my knowledge a lot is happening here in Oregon an Indiana that Steve has not been updated on yet, so even he is not aware of the updated research design.

Now, how many of you are building rather than wasting my time and yours quibbling over words, and attempts to learn more without doing your own innovation.

Why are members interacting with this thread when some have stated that they have a possible or potential runner? If I were one, I would be attempting to back up or prove my own claims rather than use productive time talking about others legality's. which I would be doing if it were not for the remarks being made here.

At this point there is not good reason to believe anyone has a working wheel. Steve's idea needs work and anyone could incorporate it into their design.

All I can reply to this is good luck and may the best man or team win! Do you really think I would tell you if I had a running wheel before the legalities were confirmed and so documented?

May I suggest that we all drop this and return to either your simulations or real builds. This is not productive and reminds me of Bessler's statement about the fop's and their spittle. Not much in society has changed in 300 years.

So is it a corporation? LLC? Sole Proprietorship?
Does it even exist yet?

It is not considered a corporation but alimited Enterprise in my state. Such registration is considered LLC but no bonding is required as we are not currently soliciting a product or seeking investment funds.

No it does not exist yet. There is no need to get the cart before the horse which could prove to be very cost ineffective.

Laugh all you wish, while doing so I can rest assured that you are not competing with me or us .

I now feel that enough vacillation and dilly-dally have been spent here toying with the foppery. I stated last night that it would be my last post until after my surgery. You have forced me to retaliate and burned up more of my constructive time.

If you wish making attempts to coerce James or Steve into revealing more, that is your prerogative and theirs. You are not going to get anything from me

Why not forget playing the foppish armchair philosopher looking for a freebie and build your own designs. Of what value is it to set back and make joke out of forming an enterprise guaranteing the rights of those involved. As James stated the answer is in Bessler's writings, and still you do not understand!

As Porky pig would say! th-th-th-ats all folks!

Ralph

[rounder]

leverage, force ,balance and some freedom are the only things that are needed to make a runner, my idea has all four. i think anyone could claim it at the patent office. since it is easy to understand . i do not however know what raplh and james have but it sounds very simular.this idea i have had for many years now, the laws of physics are not broken ,but it is the perfect example of physics in motion. i do not however have a running wheel because i do not have a wheel - maybe i should get one.-rounder

[rlortie]

Rounder,

Been waiting for you to pop up! :-)

leverage, force and balance are the only things that are needed to make a runner, my idea has all three

Better words were never spoken, that is what Bessler had and so stated.

Like the childs game of "rock, scissor paper" one will always prevail the other, and what more do you still not understand?

Ralph