thx, Drwhat.
well ........I have decided to share my wheel design with you folks.
1st I need to draw it......
simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Moderator: scott
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Bessler007
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Hello Arthur,
As you can see I'm an excellent illustrator. I would be happy to draw up something for you if you give me a description. The katz wheel didn't take any time at all to put together.
As you can see I'm an excellent illustrator. I would be happy to draw up something for you if you give me a description. The katz wheel didn't take any time at all to put together.
re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Arthur
Do not let us get to you.
Just remember on of the best arguments for you statement is tides and the moon.
I am sure your ideas may not go with what I said, but you are trying to present ideas for some thing you see, and that can be difficult to do.
Do not let me or others cause you to shift in your ideas.
Trying is always good.
[/quote]
Do not let us get to you.
Just remember on of the best arguments for you statement is tides and the moon.
I am sure your ideas may not go with what I said, but you are trying to present ideas for some thing you see, and that can be difficult to do.
Do not let me or others cause you to shift in your ideas.
Trying is always good.
[/quote]
re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
The above comments are quite right - if you have a idea then you must think of a good experimental basis to demonstrate it - if it's still at the idea stage then you will find that people think in certain modes - some more in tune with the language of physics & who use it quite comfortably - others not so comfortable.
It can be very hard to put up a persuasive argument even when you are talking the same language - that's why experiments are always good when looking for something extraordinary.
Extraordinary ideas require extraordinary proof.
It can be very hard to put up a persuasive argument even when you are talking the same language - that's why experiments are always good when looking for something extraordinary.
Extraordinary ideas require extraordinary proof.
Re: re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Bessler007 wrote:I'll pose a question, Arthur. What is the cause of the constant, invariable, eternal force of gravity?
THE GRAVITRON.
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
is energy always 'conserved' ?
.....HELL NO!
1 example:
========= force of gravity is larger than force used to create gravity with the GRAVITRON.
energy / gravity is 'created' with spinning motion ......
...... thanks to centrifugal force and it's counterpart: tension.
..................................................
picture a GRAVITRON at the carnival.
let's say the wall inside the gravitron is vertical.
the people inside the gravitron represent 500 pound weights.
between each 500 pound weight - and the wall of the gravitron,
..there are springs that store energy.
...................................................
- gravitron structure is light. the central axle is frictionless.
...............................................
force A accelerates the GRAVITRON to 60 rpm.
500 pound weights apply centrifugal force to the springs: force B.
force B is greater than force A.
....................................................................
====== this system has 'gained' energy.
........................................
- over-unity is real.
- don't listen to institutionalized science and it's 'entropy' propaganda.
- perpetual motion is the universe !!
.....HELL NO!
1 example:
========= force of gravity is larger than force used to create gravity with the GRAVITRON.
energy / gravity is 'created' with spinning motion ......
...... thanks to centrifugal force and it's counterpart: tension.
..................................................
picture a GRAVITRON at the carnival.
let's say the wall inside the gravitron is vertical.
the people inside the gravitron represent 500 pound weights.
between each 500 pound weight - and the wall of the gravitron,
..there are springs that store energy.
...................................................
- gravitron structure is light. the central axle is frictionless.
...............................................
force A accelerates the GRAVITRON to 60 rpm.
500 pound weights apply centrifugal force to the springs: force B.
force B is greater than force A.
....................................................................
====== this system has 'gained' energy.
........................................
- over-unity is real.
- don't listen to institutionalized science and it's 'entropy' propaganda.
- perpetual motion is the universe !!
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Georg Künstler
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- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:22 pm
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Hi arthur,
I can feel you are saying. But the most of the board cannot handle feelings. They need mathematically or physically proofed arguments( Known things). This is the basis to her communication. They will not accept things which they have not learned in school. So your argumentation is far beyond there knowledge. I don't know your education, if you have a mathematical or physical background, but it doesn't matter, you stand to your idea, and that is great.
I will see if I can support you, maybe we have the same opinion, maybe we may agree, maybe we disagree, all can happen.
I will take your example with the different o'clock points, working against or with gravity to develope a formular.
Your view to this point is in common to Besslers words: energy, which can be extracted is depending on the diameter.
I will prepare some drawings, support it with build prototype, and present the formular which shows how many energy can be extracted from gravity.
I will take the following picture as start for this discussion. A wheel with unequal mass distribution. Obviously we have 2 dead points for gravity, the 12 o'clock and the 6 o'clock position. All other positions, gravity is able to move the wheel. Hope you agree. Maybe others can also agree.
the future has begun
Georg
I can feel you are saying. But the most of the board cannot handle feelings. They need mathematically or physically proofed arguments( Known things). This is the basis to her communication. They will not accept things which they have not learned in school. So your argumentation is far beyond there knowledge. I don't know your education, if you have a mathematical or physical background, but it doesn't matter, you stand to your idea, and that is great.
I will see if I can support you, maybe we have the same opinion, maybe we may agree, maybe we disagree, all can happen.
I will take your example with the different o'clock points, working against or with gravity to develope a formular.
Your view to this point is in common to Besslers words: energy, which can be extracted is depending on the diameter.
I will prepare some drawings, support it with build prototype, and present the formular which shows how many energy can be extracted from gravity.
I will take the following picture as start for this discussion. A wheel with unequal mass distribution. Obviously we have 2 dead points for gravity, the 12 o'clock and the 6 o'clock position. All other positions, gravity is able to move the wheel. Hope you agree. Maybe others can also agree.
the future has begun
Georg
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
nice wheel, Georg.
ok lets look at this wheel.
roll it on the ground.
example A: push wheel forward with (force x) once every rotation when the weight reaches vertical falling position. (clockwise 3:00 force).
example B: push wheel forward with force (x) once every rotation when the weight reaches vertical rising position.
(clockwise 9:00 force).
the wheel accelerates faster in example A.
because adding velocity to a dropping weight is easier -
- than adding velocity to a rising weight.
yes........Obviously we have 2 dead points for gravity, the 12 o'clock and the 6 o'clock position. All other positions, gravity is able to move the wheel.
ok lets look at this wheel.
roll it on the ground.
example A: push wheel forward with (force x) once every rotation when the weight reaches vertical falling position. (clockwise 3:00 force).
example B: push wheel forward with force (x) once every rotation when the weight reaches vertical rising position.
(clockwise 9:00 force).
the wheel accelerates faster in example A.
because adding velocity to a dropping weight is easier -
- than adding velocity to a rising weight.
To further the discussion, lets now look at a mass with movement allowing sliding towards the axle. The best way to shift a weight on a wheel with minimal force is when that weight is at 9 o'clock and you slide it to the right towards the axle, or 3 o'clock and you slide it to the left heading towards the axle. However your opportunity to do so is extremely short if the wheel is rotating. What you do with it then is up to you!
re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
the easiest way to move a weight is with a lever.
weights move toward the axle when rising,
away from the axle when falling ...
dropping weights land at 3:00 with vertical (downward) velocity.......
.......this is how I 'see' bessler's wheel.
weights move toward the axle when rising,
away from the axle when falling ...
dropping weights land at 3:00 with vertical (downward) velocity.......
.......this is how I 'see' bessler's wheel.
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Georg Künstler
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- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:22 pm
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
first we should agree, that the force on the ground will variate. When falling, we have a weightless situation, when rising we have an additional force on the ground. The force on the ground is following the sine shape.
We have, during the side-rolling a pulsating force on the ground. Can you agree on this.
the future has begun
Georg
We have, during the side-rolling a pulsating force on the ground. Can you agree on this.
the future has begun
Georg
Re: re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
Georg we agree, so what next?I will take the following picture as start for this discussion. A wheel with unequal mass distribution. Obviously we have 2 dead points for gravity, the 12 o'clock and the 6 o'clock position. All other positions, gravity is able to move the wheel. Hope you agree. Maybe others can also agree.
the future has begun
Georg
Is this a sine of the future?
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JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
... definitely a sine of the future.
may the force be with you
agreed georg..............first we should agree, that the force on the ground will variate. When falling, we have a weightless situation, when rising we have an additional force on the ground. The force on the ground is following the sine shape.
We have, during the side-rolling a pulsating force on the ground. Can you agree on this.
may the force be with you
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Georg Künstler
- Devotee
- Posts: 1758
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:22 pm
- Location: Speyer, Germany
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re: simple logic tells me gravity is not conservative!
now we can calculate the force, when the excenter wheel is in 3 O'clock or 9 O'clock position. When mass is given, and radius is given, we can do the calculation of torque.
(F)orce should be a function from mass, radius and sin( alpha).
On the 12 o'clock position and 6 o'clock position the torque should be zero, on 3 'o'clock and 9 o'clock position a maximum.
F = M * R * sin (alpha)
can we agree on this ?
the future has begun
Georg
(F)orce should be a function from mass, radius and sin( alpha).
On the 12 o'clock position and 6 o'clock position the torque should be zero, on 3 'o'clock and 9 o'clock position a maximum.
F = M * R * sin (alpha)
can we agree on this ?
the future has begun
Georg