Cf is the result of an objects inertia, the behaviour described in Newtons Laws about an object resisting a change in its state of motion.
That sounds similar to what I said.
iow, cf is fictitious. it's not the real force. The real force is the cp.
CF is the (fictitious) reaction to the real force. The reaction is begat from the action, not vice versa.
The wheel exerts a force upon the weight, causing centripetal acceleration.
As a consequence of the weight's inertia, it exerts a force upon the wheel. (This is a force in centrifugal direction.)
Grimer,
From a reference link in the Wikipedia article...
Since force (F = ma) is rate of change of momentum (p, symbol clashes with pop) it seems necessary to find terms for higher derivatives of force too. So far yank (symbol Y) has been suggested for rate of change of force, tug (symbol T) for rate of change of yank, snatch (symbol S) for rate of change of tug and shake (symbol Sh) for rate of change of snatch. Needless to say, none of these are in any kind of standards, yet. We just made them up on usenet.
In other words, these are just made up names for the higher derivatives.
Edit: corrected color.
Last edited by jim_mich on Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes eccentrically1 - I'm amazed how constantly this can get confused.
P.S. of course Bessler's wheel weights experienced Cp's & Cf's - but it was a side effect of all weights in curved path motion & not the Prime Mover force that allowed a weight to be lifted quickly, IMO.
jim_mich wrote:Grimer,
From a reference link in the Wikipedia article...
Since force (F = ma) is rate of change of momentum (p, symbol clashes with pop) it seems necessary to find terms for higher derivatives of force too. So far yank (symbol Y) has been suggested for rate of change of force, tug (symbol T) for rate of change of yank, snatch (symbol S) for rate of change of tug and shake (symbol Sh) for rate of change of snatch. Needless to say, none of these are in any kind of standards, yet. We just made them up on usenet.
In other words, these are just made up names for the higher derivatives.
Correct.
And once upon a time momentum, acceleration and jerk were just made up names for the lower derivatives.
A derivative does not need an officially registered name to exist. Nor does a baby.
The higher derivatives of "snap, crackle and pop" do exist in the real world and they have been given those unofficial names. No doubt people will continue to use them when needed until the names are officially recognised or some alternative official names are given.
The higher derivatives do not only exist in my mind.
I am not imagining them.
The unofficial names were not given by me.
Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terribilis ut castrorum acies ordinata?
eccentrically1 wrote:iow, cf is fictitious. it's not the real force. The real force is the cp.
Wouldn't it be more correct to define CP not as a force but as a physical behavior of mass in motion; a reaction to the force exerted (the action) onto the mass.
I mean - without firstly having a prime force acting, the behavior of CP will not come into play at all...or would you consider CP to be 'alive' even if the mass stand still?
Just some fluffy mindspind from north...
ruggero ;-)
Contradictions do not exist.
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.
You will find that one of them is wrong. - Ayn Rand -
Wouldn't it be more correct to define CP not as a force but as a physical behavior of mass in motion; a reaction to the force exerted (the action) onto the mass.
I mean - without firstly having a prime force acting, the behavior of CP will not come into play at all...or would you consider CP to be 'alive' even if the mass stand still?
If you are accelerating in your car, what is the real force acting on you?
What is the reactive, (fictitious) "force"?
Well...I believe the car need a force to make it move..in the first place.
That's what I mean by 'prime force', the action.
The motion of the car is the reaction.
Contradictions do not exist.
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.
You will find that one of them is wrong. - Ayn Rand -
The force that accelerates the car in the first place is from the wheels pushing against the road, and the road pushes back. The friction between the tires and the road in this case makes it go forward. The car and the road interact to create the acceleration force. Anyone inside the car interacts with the car's acceleration force.
There isn't a force pulling anyone in the car backwards upon acceleration.
The car is pushing you forward, and you feel the seat pressing, and a sensation of being pulled back.
When you turn a corner, even if you don't accelerate, since you are changing the car direction, your interaction with that change in direction is to keep moving straight, resisting the change. Fortunately the belt and the door force you to the center of that turn.
Anything that is loose in the car will be flung to one side, like something sitting on the seat or dashboard, until it is stopped by the side of the car, and the CP acceleration takes over again.
One step back, please:
The car accelerate because of the wheel and road pushing each other...?
Maybe I've missed something in real life or maybe I am just walking around daydreaming, but I have seen many wheels in my garage standing absolute still...and I guess these wheels and the garage floor are constantly pushing each other.
No doubt: I leave them standing there at night and next morning they are still standing there. Same place, same spot. They have not accelerated a micrometer.
Am I using 'bad' wheels? Do I need to replace my wheels?
I even video-filmed them overnight to see if they cheated on me...no luck, same result.
To bring movement to these wheels I have to do what..?
Contradictions do not exist.
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.
You will find that one of them is wrong. - Ayn Rand -
Big challenge: I need a car ;-)
Edit - sorry, I need the money to buy the car..........
Contradictions do not exist.
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.
You will find that one of them is wrong. - Ayn Rand -
