5:3 Preponderance and the ancient problem of Perpetual Motion

[WaltzCee]

Squaring the circle is a problem proposed by ancient geometers. It is the challenge of reconstructing a square with the same area as a given circle by using only a finite number of steps with compass and straightedge. ... The expression "squaring the circle" is sometimes used as a metaphor for trying to do the impossible.

If the circumstances are equal the areas are not. At least I think that's true. I'm not the
fastest Photon in this race. Nor the brightest. I'm only going to be the winner. :-)

[Oystein]

There are two ways of squaring the circle..

By Area or by circumference.. and they are of course different in size..

Both needs the value Pi (3.14..) Both are equally impossible.

So are Perpetual Motion....

(The method of squaring the circumference that I found in Bessler's work, and also in Masonic, RC and known historical publications seems to be an ancient tradition going back several thousands of years..into ancient Egypt. Fittingly, Pythagoras was travelling Egypt and was taught the Pythagoras theorem of 3-4-5 etc by Egyptian mathematicians and Priests.. I guess he learned some other trick too..)

[Oystein]

Here's a go at it I did in another thread years ago, compared to using Pi and the math only.

Thanks. Yes, it's "the blue one" that I'm talking about.

The cool thing is that the "trick" to get further to draw the full geometric solution is drawn into Bessler's Weissenstein drawing.

A VERY impressive and interesting man..Orffyreus

Best
ØR

[ME]

I have attached you'r reconstruction attempt..
I didn't really get why you try to reconstruct? when you have the original..
Now the original Geometry doesn't fit as well..

We reconstruct to understand how it was constructed and try to discover the rules behind the process so we may learn.

Are you trying to back engineer the now invisible base geometry used? Or just make a nicer looking "AP Wheel"?

Answer:

from what I can determine it can only be geometrically reconstructed by means of this "secret geometry" symbolism

I think you'd really like the reconstruction process when you see it, pure gold.

I see you are more open to the fact that fruitful knowledge can come from researching Bessler's written and drawn work in a broader view, and that's good.

I'm not opposing the use of geometry.

I have attached you'r reconstruction attempt.

A Pentagon does not posses a 3:4:5 triangle. Quick calculus show that a pentagon is close, but definitely off: 2.94 : 4.05 : 5.00

To compare, the reconstruction I made is also off: 4:0088 : 2.9882 5.0000

So what is that pentagon doing there when it does not matches anything? And that underlines my exact point in this, and similar, topics.
Without proof, it's just projected stuff for no other reason than projection alone.


Here is something I think you'd like, and is unrelated to that earlier "secret geometry" reconstruction attempt.

Geometrically recreating the 3-4-5 triangle with circles and lines:

• Marking the intersection points A, B, F, and H.
  
  Determine Point E as top-center.
  • Draw a circle with the center at A (red)
    Draw a circle with the center at B (red).
    Both with the same radius.
    They cross at intersection C and D. draw that line (yellow).
    It intersects at the top, marked as E.
  Draw line E-F
  Draw it perpendicular to G.
  It so happens that it extends to point H, and confirms that those points are symmetrically to the center (Assumed FAEBH are part of a circle).
  
  Triangle E-G-F forms a 3-4-5 triangle.

[Oystein]

Attached I have put in a 2 x 3-4-5 triangle as per Masonic Geometry should be. I have also entered a standard Pentagon. And we can see that the differences get very hard to see.. So using the printing "computers" of the 1700s it need to be verified in so many ways before it should be applied for understanding.

The Pentagon just there makes connections to a series of other events. The 2x3-4-5 does not at this particular place. But yes, just that figure belongs as always above the circle.. ;) Above the square and compass, as it always has been.. see belov

But if you find that the variation from the Pentagon to the 3-4-5 gives you a consistent match that can be repeated in many places for verification, and it serves a logic purpose AND give us new insight.. then I will gladly take notice of it. But I already found from so many other places that your figure should be placed above where the sum gets 53 (as ithe upper angle of the 3-4-5 triangle. This number you will get when you know how many "books" there are of Euclid!

[Oystein]

The use of this 2 x 3-4-5 triangle "on top" can be found in many places..

Here is Bessler's windmill.. same same

Yet I haven't found any consistency or usage of it inside the circle.

When added to the top, the Squaring of the circle and all the other geometric properties of "the Stone" and the square and compass is possible..

If it was time to show, I would. So I will save that to another time/place.

I will be watching to see if there is anything to learn other than see figures fit here or there..

Good work, and best of luck!!
ØR

[Oystein]

By the way, what I did when I researched all these figures was to also see if the figures you fit in, is very simple to repeat and draw from blank paper with a compass and a square. By doing that I found a special way of finding the coordinates for this and that, and it seems like that is a well known method. An ancient grid method. If they should draw all these sacred geometry things it should be simple as e=mc'2. That is how I check if what I find has any merit.. and that is why it is easy to be carried away with a computer, twisting geometric figures around.. IMO. Just be "careful" of that, that's all..

Best
ØR

[Fletcher]

@ ME .. I'm mostly interested in where/whether the nuances leads towards a physical device and the proof of PM too.

And now that Oystein mentions it whether the Masonic/RC logo does contain the long sought secret of PM, known for long time ? I'm gonna say emphatically YES because imo the handle is the crux of the matter (pun intended) and can be derived from the logo. If so proven then these societies with the the previously unproven underground knowledge would no longer be inward looking narcissistic navel gazers, and in fact be outward looking jovial chaps and redeemers of the universe :) Mostly I'll have a beer with just about anyone ;7)

Thanks Fletcher. As you mention, all these individual levers and crosses all obey the laws of physics..

What we need to look for is, what does NOT obey them? Or let's say what is the candidates that is still undiscovered / untested ?

I would say that the principle of preponderance from "Greed" is one candidate.

The preponderant "gang" want to keep or even increase their preponderance. Maybe they can, because they are stronger and outnumber the minor gang already? This would then have to be caused by the still un-verified contentedness principle..

Yes, Physics must be obeyed at all times, at least Archimedes Law of Levers. But when the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and the individual parts always obey, then the whole must be considered at the very least disloyal.

So yes, we have to look for a special situation where mechanics, so arranged and applied, is prepared to run a red light.

As for 'untested' and 'undiscovered'. I prefer to say unrecognised potential for gravity induced PM. I can't say untested or undiscovered because that's a red light to far for me.

Just how Preponderance is maintained and the gang kept in line is indeed the question of the week.

[Fletcher]

Yes Fletcher!

This (attached is from my private notes...)

I think those parts in question.. The astronomical V-shaped Kreuz, the basic stork bill with the handle fit together, and mechanically support the same basic purpose/movement..

Agreed !

FWIW .. here is my transformation process of my lever and weight 'Handles'.

[Fletcher]

To me, it seems like Bessler's wheel was a special variation of the unworkable avalanche-drive..in a circular configuration.

But added both springs and a weight handle-construction to open and close all the drives joints/kreuz and extend and contract the "train" by loading/unloading the springs, torques and spacing..

Got to this late - a bit under the pump today - Friday arvo and nearly beer o'clock :)

I'll get Mary Shelley right on it, if I can dig her up ;7)

It has to be simple !

[Oystein]

Here is a figure I made back in 2017 from the geometry of Evclid's Elements. Liber XV iv. 16. (avail.to Bessler in Latin)

Book iv problem 16. show a circle divided into 15 parts, by a Pentagon(5) and a triangle (3).

So I took a 15 divided circle and added the pentagon anda triangle and drew a few lines. I used Paint that is about as accurate as a straightedge and a pencil I think. This is what that came up.

I don't have time to go into lenghty discussion about this or that about accuracy etc. in this thread about preponderance. This drawing is made from that ancient figure in question anyway. Simply based on 5 and 3 and some simple pencil and ruler lines.

Some vil notice that the 3 white fields now looks just like the Weissenstein pendulum..

[John Collins]

You can see my own thoughts back in 2009 at www.theorffyreuscode.com
I described how I constructed the pentagon from Bessler’s clues, as well as why the middle axle is that exact size.
Click on the left side buttons Apologia Pentagram. http://www.theorffyreuscode.com/html/ap ... wheel.html

JC

[Oystein]

You can see my own thoughts back in 2009 at www.theorffyreuscode.com
I described how I constructed the pentagon from Bessler’s clues, as well as why the middle axle is that exact size.
Click on the left side buttons Apologia Pentagram.

JC

Let's not forget that.

Do you have a further thought about the vertical A figure "squeezing" that axle? Or do you think it is there just to prove the existence of the other geometry?

Best
ØR

[John Collins]

I think it’s just Bessler’s usual method of providing double clues.

JC

[Oystein]

Is 33 & 55 and Gematria found in Bessler's work actually a Freemasonic secret?

How would I know?

F+R+E+E = 33
A+C+C+E+P+T+E+D = 55
(33+55=88)

So is the following simple examples why Bessler's portrait has only "HOCH" written with capital letters? H+O+C+H=33 and the Merseburg pendulum weights add up to: 11+11+11=33 and 11+11+11+11+11=55.

If it wasn't for JC discovering the number "55" and persisted even people often said he saw ghosts in broad day-light..I think this would be discovered by outsiders EVER!

So was this why I was banned from the Masonic forum?

Did Bessler actually show us Masonic secrets? Wasn't it all in my head as proposed by several? Does this prove that such work on Bessler's codes are indeed not only fruitful, but could even be found to be utterly important?

John Collins started this! And many of his findings was correct I think.

Best
ØR