Bronze bearings came in today. Was concerned that common hardware store 1/4 and 3/8 bolts wouldn't fit good enough and that I'd have to get drill rod or ground shafting, but the bolts are fine.
Now, like they said in "Ghost Busters", "Ya have to produce."
What I have now is still somewhat rickety, so bear with me while I do layout, make all the parts for 16 weight positions and other parts, and assemble everything.
Looks like it will work, but, there's always something I'm overlooking that could creep out and jam it to a halt right at that last half inch to go. I've run it over and over and over, and if I can get repeatability from weight to weight, then here we go.................
1. 11 ounces then back in balance
2. 11 ounces then back in balance
3. 11 ounces then back in balance
4. 11 ounces then back in balance
5. 11 ounces then back in balance
6. 11 ounces then back in balance
7. 11 ounces then back in balance
8. 11 ounces then back in balance
9. 11 ounces then back in balance
10. 11 ounces then back in balance
11. 11 ounces then back in balance
12. 11 ounces then back in balance
13. 11 ounces then back in balance
14. 11 ounces then back in balance
15. 11 ounces then back in balance
16. 11 ounces then back in balance
= one revolution with 16 axial impulses
It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
The 12 Labors of Heracles (Latin: Hercules)
http://www.pantheon.org/areas/folklore/ ... icles.html
Tantalus is a good analogy however.......
http://www.pantheon.org/areas/folklore/ ... icles.html
Tantalus is a good analogy however.......
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
? for Jonathan or any engineer....
Before taking my test wheel apart and replacing the 15 static weights, I fine tuned the action of the weight mover and the axial force on the activated weight has increased to 1 lb. 3 oz. However, instead of 5 release points being traversed through, it is now only 3.
The wheel is 46 9/16 dia. There are 16 weights all still 5 lbs. each.
Is it possible to calculate the acceleration and terminal rpm from this information?
What I've got then is one 5 lb weight lifting 8 others on the opposite side of the diameter. And when it's done, momentum declines and the wheel comes to a complete stop after just this one weight cycles through its motion.
Robert
Before taking my test wheel apart and replacing the 15 static weights, I fine tuned the action of the weight mover and the axial force on the activated weight has increased to 1 lb. 3 oz. However, instead of 5 release points being traversed through, it is now only 3.
The wheel is 46 9/16 dia. There are 16 weights all still 5 lbs. each.
Is it possible to calculate the acceleration and terminal rpm from this information?
What I've got then is one 5 lb weight lifting 8 others on the opposite side of the diameter. And when it's done, momentum declines and the wheel comes to a complete stop after just this one weight cycles through its motion.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert...
You say that you have ONE 5 lb weight that is lifting EIGHT other 5 lb weights on the other side of the wheel. That means you are using 5 lbs on one side of the wheel to move 40 lbs...that's a LOT of leverage. I assume that the one 5 lb "shifter" weight is on the ascending side of the wheel while the other 8 weights are being made to move LATERALLY so as to move their c.g. onto the descending side of the wheel. I think if your design is not working as you expected to, then you need to analyze what is happening to the composite c.g. of ALL 9 weights during the shift. If that composite c.g. is not shifting enough onto the descending side, then it may not be able to keep the wheel turning through enough of an angle so that the next "shifter" weight can come into play. This problem is, most likely, more one of geometry than torque and just increasing the size of the weights used would not fix it. Anyway...that's my best guess. We would probably need to SEE exactly what the mechanism is to offer any more detailed advice and, obviously, you can not share this yet if you are thinking of pursuing a patent...
Oh...by the way, I decided to check up on the myth of Tantalus and discovered that I was mistaken. He was NOT rescued by Hercules and his situation and the reason for it were not exactly what I described. I must have got him mixed up with another figure from a different myth.
Tantalus, from which we get the word "tantalize", was a king, but he was ALSO the mortal son of Zeus. He used to actually dine with the gods on top of Mt. Olympus, but was punished because he decided to steal some of the sacred food of the gods (known as "ambrosia") and give it away to mere mortals. Apparently, this food was the high octane type that could cure all diseases and extend life indefinitely if regularly consumed.
Anyway, the gods did not appreciate such treachery, even from a son of Zeus. So, when Tantalus finally arrived in the Underworld (known as "Tartarus"), he was chained into a lake of cool water whose level rose up to his neck. However, whenever he tried to stoop to get a drink, the water level immediately receded. There were also juicy pieces of fruit that dangled over his head, but when he reached up for a piece, a wind would always come along and blow the branch that the fruit was on out of his reach.
He never was rescued from his plight...I just hope this does not foreshadow a situation wherein we PM seekers will spend the rest of our lives chasing Bessler's secrets without ever being able to find them and satisfy our "thirst and hunger" for success...
ken
You say that you have ONE 5 lb weight that is lifting EIGHT other 5 lb weights on the other side of the wheel. That means you are using 5 lbs on one side of the wheel to move 40 lbs...that's a LOT of leverage. I assume that the one 5 lb "shifter" weight is on the ascending side of the wheel while the other 8 weights are being made to move LATERALLY so as to move their c.g. onto the descending side of the wheel. I think if your design is not working as you expected to, then you need to analyze what is happening to the composite c.g. of ALL 9 weights during the shift. If that composite c.g. is not shifting enough onto the descending side, then it may not be able to keep the wheel turning through enough of an angle so that the next "shifter" weight can come into play. This problem is, most likely, more one of geometry than torque and just increasing the size of the weights used would not fix it. Anyway...that's my best guess. We would probably need to SEE exactly what the mechanism is to offer any more detailed advice and, obviously, you can not share this yet if you are thinking of pursuing a patent...
Oh...by the way, I decided to check up on the myth of Tantalus and discovered that I was mistaken. He was NOT rescued by Hercules and his situation and the reason for it were not exactly what I described. I must have got him mixed up with another figure from a different myth.
Tantalus, from which we get the word "tantalize", was a king, but he was ALSO the mortal son of Zeus. He used to actually dine with the gods on top of Mt. Olympus, but was punished because he decided to steal some of the sacred food of the gods (known as "ambrosia") and give it away to mere mortals. Apparently, this food was the high octane type that could cure all diseases and extend life indefinitely if regularly consumed.
Anyway, the gods did not appreciate such treachery, even from a son of Zeus. So, when Tantalus finally arrived in the Underworld (known as "Tartarus"), he was chained into a lake of cool water whose level rose up to his neck. However, whenever he tried to stoop to get a drink, the water level immediately receded. There were also juicy pieces of fruit that dangled over his head, but when he reached up for a piece, a wind would always come along and blow the branch that the fruit was on out of his reach.
He never was rescued from his plight...I just hope this does not foreshadow a situation wherein we PM seekers will spend the rest of our lives chasing Bessler's secrets without ever being able to find them and satisfy our "thirst and hunger" for success...
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
As I've explained before, all the weights are located on the perimeter at all times except the one that is exerting the axial force.
The weights preceding the active weight are counter-balancing the weights on the ascending side. They, the ascending weights, do not move towards the center at any time.
If I can get away with using 8 weights total, then that would mean 5 lbs is lifting 4 weights (20 lbs) on the ascending side, or 1 to 4 as Herr Bessler said he could do. He was being accurate on this point.
Robert
The weights preceding the active weight are counter-balancing the weights on the ascending side. They, the ascending weights, do not move towards the center at any time.
If I can get away with using 8 weights total, then that would mean 5 lbs is lifting 4 weights (20 lbs) on the ascending side, or 1 to 4 as Herr Bessler said he could do. He was being accurate on this point.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hay
Sure this is way off , but here is a guess!
Sure this is way off , but here is a guess!
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hello Everybody
The next time you hear from me on this thread it will be to announce failure.
Otherwise, it may be John Collins. And I have no idea how long it will take for either event......
Wheeler,
Hello. My weights are blue not red.
The next time you hear from me on this thread it will be to announce failure.
Otherwise, it may be John Collins. And I have no idea how long it will take for either event......
Wheeler,
Hello. My weights are blue not red.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
rks1878 wrote:I was wondering if anyone would know how to figure at what RPM a wheel with a diameter of 45 9/16" would have to be for a weight to become "weightless" at the apex of travel?
Weight is 2255g., whose center is 1.5" in from the perimeter. Thanks.
I think RPM=30*sqrt(g/R)/π, in this case RPM=40.66
Dear forum brothers.after reading this I started thinkering!?.....so what it means is that at certain point as wheel accelerates( lets think of it as large well balanced flywheel) centrifugal and centripetal forces will overcome gravity, and make flywheel “weightless”
Please stop me right here, if I am wrong!??.......anybody!?..
Ok then
Now what is happening with torque at the shaft!?............
Did it considerably increased!?..(my humble guess is yes, it did!?..)
So then what is practical application of it!?.....
Hate to bring up this, but if I can not make pm, next best thing is improved windmill!!?....( especially for areas with low winds.)
At present most of wind turbines has light and fast blades, and takes 20 to 30 mph of wind in order to generate some torque!?....
So now with large wheel and blades or fins installed peripherally (not nessesary very long in order to minimize stress, but rather short and wide , should not take much to push wheel over 40 to 50 rpm, and once in” high gear’ I expect this greater torque to allow for additional friction of belt or chain transmision to small motor –generator without considerable slowing of the wheel, and not to mention “smoothening out” neurotic wind speed changes!?......
So I need your output in here ,please. especially mr.Ken Jonathan Jim Mitch ,and of course “good old” Ralph!!. AND OF COURSE EVERYBODY ELSE
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Zoran...
That's an interesting concept you have there for an improvement in wind powered electrical generators.
Instead of the present day, clumsy, UNSIGHTLY devices with three oversized blades that turn at low speed, how about something that is closer in design to a turbine engine? There would be some sort of funnel shaped collar or cowling that would, like a wind tunnel, concentrate the incoming wind and increase its velocity to near hurricane levels before it hit the turboelectric generator's blades!
Below I've attached a diagram of what Zoran's post made me see in my mind's eye...thanks, Zoran!
ken
P.S. I was just thinking that these smaller wind generators could have all of their exterior surfaces painted with a light blue color that would make them blend in perfectly with the surrounding sky and almost seem to disappear from view...less "eye pollution" that way.
That's an interesting concept you have there for an improvement in wind powered electrical generators.
Instead of the present day, clumsy, UNSIGHTLY devices with three oversized blades that turn at low speed, how about something that is closer in design to a turbine engine? There would be some sort of funnel shaped collar or cowling that would, like a wind tunnel, concentrate the incoming wind and increase its velocity to near hurricane levels before it hit the turboelectric generator's blades!
Below I've attached a diagram of what Zoran's post made me see in my mind's eye...thanks, Zoran!
ken
P.S. I was just thinking that these smaller wind generators could have all of their exterior surfaces painted with a light blue color that would make them blend in perfectly with the surrounding sky and almost seem to disappear from view...less "eye pollution" that way.
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- Zoran's post made me think of this...
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Would the funnel decrease the flow of air or compress it?
I was wondering if it may slow the air rather than concentrate it.
I was wondering if it may slow the air rather than concentrate it.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
[quote]Would the funnel decrease the flow of air or compress it?
I was wondering if it may slow the air rather than concentrate it.
definitely it would increase wind speed!!!..." venturi law" as a car carburetor principle!..
KEN
THANKS FOR YOUR WONDERFUL COMMENTS !
"FUNNELING" IS definitely WAY TO GO!, IF YOU CAN DESIGN IT CLEVERLY AND COST EFFECTIVE!?...
BUT I STILL NOT TOTALY SURE OF "FLYWHEEL FOR WINDMILL" CONCEPT
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME MORE INPUT!?....
I was wondering if it may slow the air rather than concentrate it.
definitely it would increase wind speed!!!..." venturi law" as a car carburetor principle!..
KEN
THANKS FOR YOUR WONDERFUL COMMENTS !
"FUNNELING" IS definitely WAY TO GO!, IF YOU CAN DESIGN IT CLEVERLY AND COST EFFECTIVE!?...
BUT I STILL NOT TOTALY SURE OF "FLYWHEEL FOR WINDMILL" CONCEPT
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME MORE INPUT!?....
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
HEY KEN !
(IF I MAY)
THAT WIND TURBINE THAT YOU KINDLY ATTACHED IS JUST GREAT LOOKING!... WHERE DID YOU "DAG" THAT ONE FROM!??....
(IF I MAY)
THAT WIND TURBINE THAT YOU KINDLY ATTACHED IS JUST GREAT LOOKING!... WHERE DID YOU "DAG" THAT ONE FROM!??....
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I would agree that the venturi effect works well in a vacuum, such as a carburetor.
Has this not been tested already?
Has this not been tested already?
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Here is a patent on a wind venturi .
inAerolift Patent BV is the inventor of the patent protected Venturi Wind turbine
inAerolift Patent BV is the inventor of the patent protected Venturi Wind turbine
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
The flywheel wouldn't be weightless, that equation I posted is the RPM necessary to just make a weight appear weightless when at a specific radial position on the wheel at 12o'c'.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.