Can we all agree on one thing???

[Art]

Prior art is any evidence that your invention is already known. Prior art does not need to exist physically or be commercially available. It is enough that someone, somewhere, sometime previously has described or shown or made something that contains a use of technology that is very similar to your invention.

Sorry but I firmly disagree with the above quote!

Has anyone explained this to Glenn R. Rouse, the man who lead a key role in bringing Bessler and the MT drawings for all to share?

Also the man that obtained a patent US 7,278,245 B2 Oct 9, 2007 based on drawing MT137. Citing reference including one page of woodcut print in series of 141 items from unpublished treatise on machines by Johann E. E. Bessler dated 1733.

I think the difference here Ralph is that the cited prior art from Bessler is just the 12 pointed drawing .

IIRC when I examined this patent a few years ago , everything that Rouse claims in the patent appears to be modifications or improvements , - such as allowing a built structure to flex and/or pivot around the joints of the "design" cited as prior art.

So the Bessler prior art doesn't conflict with the latest patent.

[agor95]

'As together we can build a foundation of agreed beliefs'

CW = Clock wise
PE = Potential Energy
KE = Kinetic Energy
AR = Acceleration Due To Rotation
AG = Acceleration Due To Gravity
ACW = AntiClockwise

The image is showing the phases of the wheel.

1. After the top white sector[1] going CW.

At white sector[2] transition. PE of the weights has been converted to KE.
The AR is stopped and the momentum is bounced back.
To move the weights into an inner position.

2. After the second is the stress storage phase.

The white sector[3] transition. The combined AR and AG causes stress
and that is locked in this sector.

3. The top within the white sector[1].

The stress is unlocked causing the Item A MT51 to rotate ACW.
Note the frame is rotating CW. This increases the AR.

Due to the AR being greater than AG the weight moves to it's starting
position.

[daxwc]

I guess, this really comes down to, is the site a Bessler forum or is it a perpetual motion forum. If it is a Bessler forum all ideas need to be explored even the cases of flat out deceit.

Doe you can look at whether and how people believe in PPM and Bessler as you would the right to freedom of religion.

“In no subject is there a rule, compliance with which will lead to new knowledge or better understanding. Skilful observations, ingenious ideas, cunning tricks, daring suggestions, laborious calculations, all these may be required to advance a subject. Occasionally the conventional approach in a subject has to be studiously followed; on other occasions it has to be ruthlessly disregarded. Which of these methods, or in what order they should be employed is generally unpredictable. Analogies drawn from the history of science are frequently claimed to be a guide; but, as with forecasting the next game of roulette, the existence of the best analogy to the present is no guide whatever to the future. The most valuable lesson to be learnt from the history of scientific progress is how misleading and strangling such analogies have been, and how success has come to those who ignored them. – Thomas Gold 1722�


My own opinion is we don’t have to agree, the more ground covered the better. I applauded sharing, but many don’t even understand the nature of the problem they are really tackling. Then there are the ones where their zillion dollar brain spasm is going to get stolen… they should be worried whether their bastardized brain child will work or not.

The thing we can agree on is that we all don’t agree, nor should we; question everything.

[daxwc]

Jim:

But the bigger question is, if Bessler discovered a PM secret method, then why has no one re-discovered his secret? Could it be that most everyone is looking in the wrong place?

I agree Jim, maybe not looking in the wrong place but surely looking at the problem the wrong way.

"All the wise ones were looking for the same principle (of 'excess weight') that I have described, and they sought it in things that were already familiar to them." - pg 366

"by all intelligent people, who, with true understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different from that in which I eventually found it." - pg 367

[agor95]

"by all intelligent people, who, with true understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different from that in which I eventually found it." - pg 367

I can agree to that opinion [statement].

[WaltzCee]

I want to say up front that the above title is somewhat misleading.

Breaker, breaker. Calling sentient beings.

forum (n.)
mid-15c., "place of assembly in ancient Rome," from Latin forum "marketplace, open space, public place," apparently akin to foris, foras "out of doors, outside," from PIE root *dhwer- "door, doorway" (see door). Sense of "assembly, place for public discussion" first recorded 1680s.

I am going to make a point everyone can agree with. At the very least, no one can disagree.

No one knows.

If one ever saw a working wheel, they would stick out like a sore thumb.

There is no one on this forum like that.

We just have our opinions and we know what they are.

In the spirit of a forum, I'd suggest we let any and all express their ideas. That's the meaning of a forum.

Let this be a forum.

[Fcdriver]

My thumb doesn't hurt, it's my back, knees, and first two fingers on my right hand, but my thumb is just fine! 😄

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95, An idea has just occurred to me; the apologia wheel, is the reset device! In other words, it is a small wheel, offset from the center of the big wheel, used to shift the weights to one side, to OOB it----------------------.

One reason I have for not posting "stuff", is because I'm probably wrong, just as I may be wrong about the wheel. Sam Peppiatt

Live Your Days Inspired Anew, LIDIA

[agor95]

Sam

You have my understanding on posting to any forum.

Thank you for doing so.

Think of the apologia image as a clue that is round.
It is a state diagram a concept guide. [opinion]

I would like to get more agreement.

I am hoping John will change the status of my sub-thread to relevant.

we should respect John ownership. As it is a good thread.

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95, An idea has just occurred to me; the apologia wheel, is the reset device! In other words, it is a small wheel, offset from the center of the big wheel, used to shift the weights to one side, to OOB it------------------. "Are yee still without understanding"

One reason I have for not posting "stuff", is because I'm probably wrong, just as I may be wrong about the wheel. Sam Peppiatt

Live Your Days Inspired Anew, LIDIA

[agor95]

Sam

Can you look at my posts on page 2 & 4?

You will see there is a re-set in the idea.

That fits with an OB idea.

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95, Yes, I see. But I'm thinking it's more continuous, a friction drive if you will. Let me back up a little. For what ever its worth, I'm fairly certain that the weights are in pairs mounted on a long slider across the face of the wheel. This is the best way to OB the wheel. When the slider or "cross bar" slides to the right, for CW rotation, the MA on the down side increases at the same time as the MA on the up side decreases. Also I think it has to be four sliders with eight weights; that's not to say that three wouldn't work.

What I'm suggesting is; The apologia wheel is the secret to resetting the sliders. Borrowing from Jim M., When the leading slider / weight swings down it not only turns the big wheel, it also drives the apologia wheel which in turn drags the following slider to the right, continually OB the large outer wheel. However, this hasn't been tried yet.

But, I am done with cams! Cams don't work! Sam Peppiatt

Live Your Days Inspired Anew, LYDIA

[agor95]

Good you will have more time to work on an alternative approach.
As you put cam method on hold.

Some diagram speaks a thousand words.

When you are ready to show something we can ask if forum members agree.

[Sam Peppiatt]

agor95, Not too clear huh? Sorry, I'm a big dummy, don't know how to draw it out. However I will try to answer any question you might have, as best as I can. Sam / LYDIA

[John doe]

I can agree on one thing , I hate you all!
Not really.