How can adding more mechanisms increase rpm and power ?

[daxwc]

Great post Fletcher and welcome back. My opinion the “hero mechanism� isn’t the hardest part of the quest. That would be its application to make a wheel rotate. Most probably give up on the mechanism and find a new hero mechanism to focus on.

[Fcdriver]

Having stopped it in this manner, it remained stationary... I commenced the movement very gently to see if it would of itself regain its former rapidity, which I doubted, believing that it only preserved for a long time the impetus of the impulse first communicated. But to my astonishment I observed that the rapidity of the wheel augmented little by little until it had made two turns, and then it regained its former speed, until I observed by my watch that it made the same twenty-six turns a minute as before, when acting freely; and twenty turns when it was attached to the screw to raise water.

This experiment, showing the rapidity of the wheel augmenting from the very slow movement I gave it, to an extraordinary rapid one, convinces me more than if I had seen the wheel moving for a whole year, which would not have persuaded me that it was a perpetual motion, because it might have diminished little by little until it ceased all together; but to gain speed instead of losing it, and to increase that speed to a certain degree in spite of the resistance of air and the friction of the axle, I do not see how anyone can doubt the truth of this action. I then turned it in the opposite direction, and the wheel produced the same effect. I examined the bearings of the wheel to see if there was any hidden artifice; but was unable to see anything more than the two small bearings on which the wheel

[Fcdriver]

He turned the wheel in the opposite direction and it produced the same effect! Nothing about removing the attachment to the water pump, or the stampers. This means it turned in both direction as presented in the drawings, which would be impossible if the stampers were connected directly to the axle. If it still lifted the stampers and turned the water wheel, while in reverse those mechanisms, we're not connected in the manner that is suggested!

[Furcurequs]

Fcdriver,

Wow, there for a second I thought you were finally using language I could understand while describing your own wheel. I suspect those aren't your words, though, are they?

[daxwc]

Fletcher: Bessler's literal descriptions in MT show a path to finding his mechanism and discerning its true purpose !

I agree Fletcher and MT is why I can’t see Bessler as a fraud. First through hundreds of failed experiments I see my journey in his works. If he was a fraud he was a very frustrated man. Those carved wooden blocks would have taken thousands of hours to make. I think there is no question in my mind a code is there also. So would a man spend that much time on a hoax in his era when spare time was negligible?

[james.lindgard]

I think it's on-topic.

As one assumes the wheel as a whole remains stationary (and doesn't fly, fall, or starts rolling around the room) then it should be the overbalanced mechanism doing some kind of wobble: using GPE and restoring GPE, averaging to basically zero GPE (loss and gain) for some complete cycle.
In the mean-time we hope to retrieve some energy from such action; it might as well be as you suggested or something FCdriver is hinting at.

I think we agree that the wobble (at least the deceleration effect on the wheel) has to be minimized to gain the maximum RPM and power, or otherwise all the surplus energy (if it's there) goes to re-acceleration instead of (plain) acceleration.

In my research I come to the conclusion that the optimum amount of mechanism should be an odd number >1 (It is tempting to suggest a prime-number).
In some mathematical perfect situation (read: easy calculus) an odd amount would have twice the smoothing frequency compared to an even amount, and still has half the "wobble"-variation compared to the situation where its has twice the amount of mechanisms.
...if I could only translate this into a working mechanism to verify what I just wrote...

ME,
Would you like to know what is funny ? With what I will be building, the over balance will come from a weight on a lever that performs work. But because the wheel turns, the source of the over balance changes to the weight/mass moved by the lever. And do I think anyone will get it ? Probably not for a long time.

[Fletcher]

ECC! .. Nice connection to Hero's Engine first century AD. I hadn't thought of that in the name Bessler gave his mechanism.


I agree it probably wasn't a simple steam engine analogue. Bessler seemed adamant that rotation was caused thru imbalance alone, much as JC has always said, and Oystein confirmed - it is one of the reasons I think they have the same mechanism albeit that they may have different structural dimensions and could be attempting to apply it differently, perhaps. I'm pretty sure that Oystein said that AP showed the same mech in different proportions in different places so it seems the codes show linear relationships to lengths of parts etc rather than a one size fits all approach. So it would be extraordinary for both JC and Oystein to have the same mech with the same dimensions without collaboration or Bessler explicitly saying so. Which apparently he does not.

Great post Fletcher and welcome back. My opinion the “hero mechanism� isn’t the hardest part of the quest. That would be its application to make a wheel rotate.

Most probably give up on the mechanism and find a new hero mechanism to focus on.

That's my point also dax .. the mechanism must be quite ordinary (it can't lift 'more with less') so conforms to ordinary physics and mechanical constraints. The problem is we don't associate its potential in the way the Bessler ultimately used it. Our bad.

Connectedness Principle > Correct-Handle Construction > Prime Mover > Harness the Horse in Front > Correct Application of the Stork's Bills > "I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills" > "until completely different, additional structures have been provided" > "Children's game in which there is something extraordinary for anyone who knows how to apply the game in a different way".

I've tried for what seems eons to find my own hero mechanism, based on gravity only leverage, hidden stored energy, and using ambient environmental forces. Why did I do that ? Because I couldn't find the association that Bessler apparently did resulting in imbalance rotation. Yet the Prime Mover to turn all wheels is contained in MT and there a movement will be sort and found.

So I'm back to finding how his mech was used to cause imbalance of torque forces in a final effort, rather than disappear down more rabbit holes.

Find the mech and then find how it was used !

Bessler's literal descriptions in MT show a path to finding his mechanism and discerning its true purpose !

I agree Fletcher and MT is why I can’t see Bessler as a fraud. First through hundreds of failed experiments I see my journey in his works. If he was a fraud he was a very frustrated man.

Those carved wooden blocks would have taken thousands of hours to make. I think there is no question in my mind a code is there also. So would a man spend that much time on a hoax in his era when spare time was negligible?

That's a major part off my reasoning for his sincerity also. Though it is not infallible.