Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[daxwc]

Agor95: It is good to see the internal components of a self winding pocket watch.

In a way the mass tries to stay motionless while the frame [components] actively moves resulting in the winding process.

Ok, now modify it so the mass stays motionless while earth winds it.

[Roxaway59]

I have an idea that I want to try out on my original wheel.

I am hoping that it is a work around for my levers.

At the moment I don't know if it will do what I hope it will do but it stays within the law of the levers.

I will continue working on it tomorrow and if I don't find serious problems with it then I will begin posting the idea.

In order for it to be tested it would need a real build but its not overly complicated.

Graham

[agor95]

Agor95: It is good to see the internal components of a self winding pocket watch.

In a way the mass tries to stay motionless while the frame [components] actively moves resulting in the winding process.

Ok, now modify it so the mass stays motionless while earth winds it.

I do not want to disappoint; However I am after an interaction that is stronger that the coriolis effect.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

I've spent pretty much all day looking at drawing and simulations in Algodoo and everything has turned out to be inconclusive.

There is no clear indication that what I was thinking of would work.

For me the only slightly positive thing to come out of it is the notion once again that the Apologia Poetica wheel drawing is an indicator of phases that the wheel goes through.

The reason I think this is because I keep noticing these phases in attempts that I make and they line up with the drawing.

I will keep looking at recent ideas to see if there is some work around to the problems.

Graham

[Fletcher]

fwiw I also think they represent phases/shifts, as you do .. basically because it is such a simple, lacking in detail, drawing - of alternating dark and light coloured pie-shaped sectors, and not much else - approximately equal in area for each colour and set ( of white and black ) etc .. the fact that they are not equal area for each colour also points to an alternating phase shift imo .. additionally the pattern ( or sets ) seems to indicate repeatability, and from the drawing representation at least 3 alternating sets of white and black phases per 360 degree rotation .. I would hazard that each mechanical phase shift takes a certain time and area to complete from go-to-whoa and thus 3 ( Prime Mover operation ?! ) is the optimum for a combination of power and performance, whilst perhaps other sets numbers above or below 3 are possible they have compromises ..

[agor95]

Hi Fletcher

I think we are in agreement with a slight modification. It represents the three prime movements.

Regards

[daxwc]

Agor95: I do not want to disappoint; However I am after an interaction that is stronger that the coriolis effect

Who said the force was weak? It looks weak because you’re not really harnessing earths rotation.

If we consider the circumference of the Earth at the equator (which is roughly 40,075 kilometers), a point on the equator moves at a speed of approximately 460 meters per second or roughly 1,000 miles per hour

So, at Germany’s latitude, a point moves at about 368.5 meters per second due to Earth’s rotation. It’s slower than at the equator but still quite impressive!

368 m/s is pretty fast and the earth has a lot of mass and momentum behind it.

[Roxaway59]

Yes its hard to say exactly what the phases are but I am thinking 3 distinct actions by 2 mechanisms on a single crossbar. I haven't done much experimenting with 3 but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a distinct advantage doing it that way Fletcher.

Graham

[SHADOW]

Je partage l'avis que cette figure représente un phasage, je pense que 120°est l'angle le plus efficient pour tirer un maximum d'énergie de la roue lors de la descente des poids sur la jante. les secteurs blancs pouvant représenter les phase d'échange des poids sur un système de remonté ou de réindexassions.

I agree that this figure represents a phasing, I think 120° is the most efficient angle to get the maximum energy from the wheel when lowering the weights on the rim. the white sectors that can represent the phase of weight exchange on a retrieval or reindexation system.

[agor95]

Hi daxwc

368 m/s is pretty fast and the earth has a lot of mass and momentum behind it.

It is not the absolute speed that is important put the change in it's direction.

However any benefit an object gets from being thrown off the surface of the Earth by this speed
is more than cancelled by the pull of gravity.

As far as the object is concerned it's travelling in a straight line east with no change of direction.

[daxwc]

Indeed, my ancestors were also among the brave souls who sailed with Christopher Columbus. They were so paranoid about falling off the edge of the Earth, they wouldn’t even play a game of marbles on deck

[agor95]

Indeed, my ancestors were also among the brave souls who sailed with Christopher Columbus. They were so paranoid about falling off the edge of the Earth, they wouldn’t even play a game of marbles on deck

We all appreciate that in 24 hours this straight line returns us back full circle. But gravity appears less along the equator.

Also a small animal will see a flat surface where a larger one or higher view point will see a curved surface.
This has an advantage for the curve of acceleration seems [approximate] to a straight line.

So being a 'Flat Liners' has it's uses.

p.s.

I believed Christopher Columbus visited the west coast of Ireland. He was show items that floated to the shore.
This collection contained topical plants and nuts. Also there was a report he interviewed a dying sailor.
The sailor sounded deranged saying a great storm blow him out to sea to a strange land.
Then he stock up with food and water to returned ending in Ireland.

[daxwc]

I suppose the minimal elevation gives this saying more credence; “Saskatchewan, Canada is so flat that on a clear day, if you stand on an apple crate and look east, you can see the back of your head.”

[agor95]

so flat that on a clear day, if you stand on an apple crate and look east, you can see the back of your head.”

True as a metaphor; but if this was real then you would be looking along the event horizon of a black hole.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

These past few weeks I have been doing what I usually do and I have been running simulations and of course thinking a lot about the Bessler enigma.

There are a number of common themes and notions that crop up and its hard to dismiss these as its difficult or even impossible to imagine a wheel working with out some of them.

Sometimes someone asks the question how can something that is said to be simple go undiscovered for hundreds of years? This is a question that I have brought up on this thread.

On the subject of simulators I would say that anything that is wrote by man is bound to be imperfect. There are no perfect programs but perhaps more important there aren’t any simulators that were designs to be used by us to solve this problem.

The makers of these programs don’t even seem to be that fourth coming about how they approach the programs as Fletcher pointed out.

To a certain degree it is up to us to discover the limitations of these programs and just accept what we can and cannot do.

Recently I discovered yet another anomaly in Algodoo that I didn’t know was there.

I always believed that having the accuracy high would yield a more accurate simulation but a recent simulation demonstrated that it isn’t always the case. This appears to be because the actual initial digits you put in matter.

For example 1200 can behave more accurate than 4800. I have no idea why this is but when we come across these anomalies I think is just best to accept it and point them out to others.

On the question of how has the principal remained hidden I would like to offer my own way of looking at this.

My background is in electronics and there is of course a very logical aspect to electronics. Pretty much everything you do in electronics is logical including fault finding.

If there is a fault on a circuit board there are a number of steps that you might take depending on what the circuit is suppose to do and sometimes it doesn’t matter what the circuit was suppose to do.

I had a case of this when my gas boiler broke down. I located the fault with a screwdriver and my nose. I stood near the boiler and detected the distinct smell of burnt components. I undid the panels with my screwdriver then sniffed my way to the fault and job done. I wish the Bessler wheel was that easy.

The reason I mention fault finding is there are some similarities with the Bessler wheel enigma. When we try to locate a fault its best to be methodical and as you check the things you know the circuit needs like correct voltages you move ever closer to what is causing the fault.

So why is it then that people who have been methodical over the years have not been able to locate Besslers prime mover? Its a good question and like any good question it deserves a good answer at the very least.

I have very often mentioned how I like to see unusual movements in a mechanism and I know that others have said the same. I believe that Besslers principal may be a collection of unusual things working in harmony with one another.

If I was to compare this with the fault finding analogy then we would be looking for not one fault but several and maybe some alterations to the circuit by people unknown for reasons unknown.

Of course this analogy doesn’t quite fit but you get the picture. Most of the time people are working with one good idea which may be part of what Bessler did but they are missing one or two key components and they don’t quite make the connection and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This is the only logical conclusion I can come to.

In a way this is a good thing because it gives us an idea of what we must be looking for. It also tells us that a lot of the time we are close, really close and its a bad idea to let good ideas remain shelved and in isolation. We have to look at merging good ideas together and if possible build it for real. I only wish I had the time and the money to do more real builds and be able to connect diagnostic equipment to them to monitor closely how they behave.

For now I will be posting more simulations soon.

Graham