Good News. Finally.....
Over the last several days I've been trying to WM2D my idea to acquire or eliminate the "toothpick force".
I have a WM model that runs at 18 rpm. Head's up: when the simulation is started, all the running weights are equidistant from each other, so the ones on the descending side fall. During this fall, the unit backtracts a bit, then begins the intended rotation after I placed a very small circle anchored to the background and set to collide with a stop on the wheel, to prevent this backtracking at startup. If the backtracking is allowed to happen, it won't run. When the backtracking is prevented, the running weights then begin to fall and the wheel rotates.
Wheel description.
30 in. diameter
12ea 5lb weights
Weights are on lever arms (can't tell how attached or where)
Pulley tool used on each weight ( can't tell how attached or where)
Graphs show a lot of upward choppiness at the beginning, then flat line out as the wheel turns, Angular Momentum, Acceleration, Velocity, Torque.
Animation Step: 80
Friction, .003
A .16lb weight pinned to the perimeter will stall it.
Weights do not create countertorque when resetting.
As I said, there is a stop to prevent the initial backtracking. The wheel rotates around to this stop at full speed and momentum, strikes it and rotation is halted.
In other models, the rotation has always been a gradual slowing as the start point was approached, but never reached. Not this one. That point is struck at the same continuous rpm.
I need to move the descending side weights down to where they fall after start up to prevent this backtracking. However, the program "messes" everything up when I try to move them while the wheel is stationary and pinned down.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy about this...
Robert
It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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bluesgtr44
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
This is what I come here for....a little meat and potatoes. Thanks Rob....
Steve
Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert...
If "a .16lb weight pinned to the perimeter will stall it", then it must be producing very little torque.
ken
If "a .16lb weight pinned to the perimeter will stall it", then it must be producing very little torque.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Got to be a typo! .16 of a pound is 1/10 of an ounce or .2835 grams, am I missing something. The toothpick force has to weigh close if not more than that.
Ralph
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Pssst... Ralph, .16 of a pound is 2.56 of an ounce which equals 72.57 grams.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Thank's Jim,
Now you know why I have stated many times that I am not a math person. I viewed it as .16 of a pound equal to 16 ounces / 10 or 16/100
Ralph
Now you know why I have stated many times that I am not a math person. I viewed it as .16 of a pound equal to 16 ounces / 10 or 16/100
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hello, been awhile...
My WM wheel runs all the way out to over 32k frames. I made a weighted rectangle which falls away and out of the way when the sim is started. This rectangle prevents the initial backtracking as the weights try to find equilibrium in that direction.
The rpm graph has rounded tops divided by V shaped valleys, which show rpm 18-20, followed by 10-12, over and over. It looks similar to the bouncing ball following the lyrics on the old "Sing Along With Mitch Miller Show".
To try and simplify things I isolated two pairs of weights, 180 deg. from each other and made a sim of this model.
It is just a rectangle pinned to the background in the center, with the weight pairs at the ends.
Each weight pair will move when the rectangle is pinned down, but the sim will not run when the rectangle is free to pivot in the center.
Robert
My WM wheel runs all the way out to over 32k frames. I made a weighted rectangle which falls away and out of the way when the sim is started. This rectangle prevents the initial backtracking as the weights try to find equilibrium in that direction.
The rpm graph has rounded tops divided by V shaped valleys, which show rpm 18-20, followed by 10-12, over and over. It looks similar to the bouncing ball following the lyrics on the old "Sing Along With Mitch Miller Show".
To try and simplify things I isolated two pairs of weights, 180 deg. from each other and made a sim of this model.
It is just a rectangle pinned to the background in the center, with the weight pairs at the ends.
Each weight pair will move when the rectangle is pinned down, but the sim will not run when the rectangle is free to pivot in the center.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert..
I guess it's time to duplicate your Working Model design!! Is it any different to your existing built wheel?
I would very much be interested in comparing the simulated with the physical models to justify the integrity of the program.
I guess it's time to duplicate your Working Model design!! Is it any different to your existing built wheel?
I would very much be interested in comparing the simulated with the physical models to justify the integrity of the program.
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Seawasp,
It is the same thing except the weights are connected differently.
The abbreviated model above......
The program is the problem, not the mech. An error message appears and it locks up. When a wheel is added and the weights and all the rectangular bars are pinned to it at their startup positions it moves. It's like WM is saying pm is not possible.
Robert
It is the same thing except the weights are connected differently.
The abbreviated model above......
The program is the problem, not the mech. An error message appears and it locks up. When a wheel is added and the weights and all the rectangular bars are pinned to it at their startup positions it moves. It's like WM is saying pm is not possible.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Right now I'm envolved with doing taxes. Even with that I feel a weight has been lifted off my supine chest.
Happy to have learned yesterday evening that when I left water in my RV trailer one night with no heat in Dec., that the freeze didn't break any of the pipes. The water I found on the floor then, I found was coming from around a gasket in the filter between the storage tank and pump. So, just a crappy washer and not a hard to get to major repair.
Will get to making the abbreviated model as soon as I can.
Tried WM again with it several times, but when the whole assy. is freed to rotate, the familiar error msg. " inconsistent restraints....." appears, and clicking to continue causes the sim to be pulled off the screen with lines going everywhere.
WM has never done that before.
robert
Happy to have learned yesterday evening that when I left water in my RV trailer one night with no heat in Dec., that the freeze didn't break any of the pipes. The water I found on the floor then, I found was coming from around a gasket in the filter between the storage tank and pump. So, just a crappy washer and not a hard to get to major repair.
Will get to making the abbreviated model as soon as I can.
Tried WM again with it several times, but when the whole assy. is freed to rotate, the familiar error msg. " inconsistent restraints....." appears, and clicking to continue causes the sim to be pulled off the screen with lines going everywhere.
WM has never done that before.
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert...
Good luck with your tax preparation. I always try to get mine done in early February just to get it out of the way while others wait to the last minute and then have to panic. I've already received my refund and am wondering how to spend it.
You wrote:
ken
Good luck with your tax preparation. I always try to get mine done in early February just to get it out of the way while others wait to the last minute and then have to panic. I've already received my refund and am wondering how to spend it.
You wrote:
You might have to check the collision parameters to make sure that your design does not contain two overlapping parts that are set to Collide with each other. That problem has made many a WM2D model "explode". Also, sometimes a model will not Run without exploding when the Accuracy is set to "Fast". One must then leave it on "Accurate" and give the simulation extra time to be processed.Tried WM again with it several times, but when the whole assy. is freed to rotate, the familiar error msg. " inconsistent restraints....." appears, and clicking to continue causes the sim to be pulled off the screen with lines going everywhere.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ken,
Nothing there to collide with anyway and it was set to "accurate.
I use Quickbooks and TurboTax for my corporate and personal returns.
Always wait til the last millisecond. Deadline for corporate one is TOMORROW.
Sorry for the commercial plugs...
robert
Nothing there to collide with anyway and it was set to "accurate.
I use Quickbooks and TurboTax for my corporate and personal returns.
Always wait til the last millisecond. Deadline for corporate one is TOMORROW.
Sorry for the commercial plugs...
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I have made the abbreviated model in the shop and it can't be made to work.
It doesn't work. This is the one where I explained above, was made of two pairs of weights, each pair 180 degrees apart, and that WM was crashing while trying to run.
The main sim with twelve weights works fine. I remember Ed or somebody said that sometimes WM can create energy in the sim all on its own. Maybe that's what is happening, I don't know.
robert
It doesn't work. This is the one where I explained above, was made of two pairs of weights, each pair 180 degrees apart, and that WM was crashing while trying to run.
The main sim with twelve weights works fine. I remember Ed or somebody said that sometimes WM can create energy in the sim all on its own. Maybe that's what is happening, I don't know.
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
How have you all been pasting screen shots of your WM designs?
I tried the print screen button, but nothing to paste.
robert
I tried the print screen button, but nothing to paste.
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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AgingYoung
- Aficionado
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- Location: Houston, TX
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert,
Try a couple of things first. Hit your 'print screen' button then go to the clipboard viewer and see if anything is there. The clipboard viewer should be found by selecting the start button at the bottom left, then programs, then accessories, then system tools, then clipboard viewer.
Also try selecting some text and using control c; see if that puts anything into your clipboard. I would help if we knew what kind of computer you are using. My friend has a gateway with windows xp. It's a little different than most machines I've used.
Gene
Try a couple of things first. Hit your 'print screen' button then go to the clipboard viewer and see if anything is there. The clipboard viewer should be found by selecting the start button at the bottom left, then programs, then accessories, then system tools, then clipboard viewer.
Also try selecting some text and using control c; see if that puts anything into your clipboard. I would help if we knew what kind of computer you are using. My friend has a gateway with windows xp. It's a little different than most machines I've used.
Gene
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Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.