Is Apologia Confused?

[TommyK]

Could the re-authors of Bessler's Apologia be suppressing or trying to confuse for their own benefit?

A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.
It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside,
and without weights, wind, or springs.

Just to name a few.

Machine was set in motion by weights.
- Bessler

Weights acted in pairs
- Bessler

Weights gained force from their own swinging.
- Bessler

Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.
- Bessler

So it appears without weights, wind, or springs.

[Jonathan.]

I don't understand, what are you trying to say?

[TommyK]

Hi Johnathan,

Wow! You don't understand any of my post. LOL

I am saying simple that in Bessler's Apologia that he says,

A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.
It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside,
and without weights, wind, or springs.

But in the interptretation by others it is claimed that Bessler states to use weights etc.

[Jonathan.]

I think when he said without weights, he meant without hanging weights that would drive a clock.

[MrTim]

I've never taken much stock in the Apologia. It's too....ambiguous... You can read whatever you like into it's verses.
Like this:

A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.
It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside,
and without weights, wind, or springs.

It could mean the disk of the sun, or the moon, as it moves across the sky. (Similar shape, like a wheel.....right?)

[Jonathan]

I agree with Jonathan.'s second post and MrTim's. I also want to make sure that TommyK knows that me and 'Jonathan.' are different people. Sorry if I'm annoying people by saying this, as I say it everytime I post in a thread where Jonathan. has posted, but I don't want to be held responsible for anything he might say, and TommyK is pretty new.
I don't think that the Apologia isn't contradicting anything. It says it doesn't have a normal rim, but it does have one. That maybe a hint. It revolves means that it works, and it doesn't have any wheels inside or out, that too maybe a hint. Hanging weights, wind(or equivalently a stream), or a wound spring are the only things that more under their own power for a while but are not alive, and two need people to happen more than once. This tells us about the uniqueness of this device. But, as MrTim said, these could really be telling us anything, which is why I have go for the eyewitness accounts more than this poetic nonsense for inspiration.

[grim]

The impression here is that he was saying there were no clock movement-type guts involved in the device.

He seems also to be saying that the device does not look like a wheel on the inside, impression being that the visible wheel could very well be part of the disguise, a dressup to throw onlookers off of the nature of its true shape.

[Trev]

I have been wondering why the description of the workings of B's wheel in Apologia sounds so completely differnet to B's own description and the kings.

[Guest]

The interpretation could be in some way surpressed for the benefit of the interpretor. Then by them taking on different ideas and conclusions they may then claim the discovery should it have been solved.

[grim]

Knowing how secretive Bessler was, as in his "terrible oath" that even his young daughter had to abide by, I find it real hard to believe that he would put ANYTHING on paper that would clue anyone in to how he built the device, considering there was a large sum of money riding on it.

The only thing that matters to this writer is Karl's words, as he was the only one besides the builder who ever saw the inside, and Wolff,
's Gravesande and other investigators' descriptions of what they saw.

Best Regards


grim