Spirals and gravity wells

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jimmyjj
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Spirals and gravity wells

Post by jimmyjj »

I have taken a break from pulleys and pendulums and gone back to nature.
Many spirals abound in nature, perhaps Bessler was even able to observe spiral galaxies.
At the centre of most spiral galaxies lies a black hole or holes.
I have read many past posts and i do not think the spiral has been thouroughly explored espesiallyspiral vortex's
In a post a while back i found mention of a toy, here is a link.
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/mptoy.htm
The author of this post made a gif of what he believed it looked like.
I believe that it is incorrectly drawn.
There is mention in the article of the ball speeding up this would not happen as much in a spiral with a constant radius.
In order for the acceleration to be at its maximum the spiral would need to be in the shape of a spiral vortex or gravity well see attached
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jimmyjj
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re: Spirals and gravity wells

Post by jimmyjj »

Ok so the picture is not so good i merely wanted to emphasise the shape of the vortex spiral
I did an experiment at home. I cut out an archimedes spiral which i then elongated and stretched into a roadside orange cone.
Although not a gravity well it was merely a cone with spiral track.
When i rolled a marble down the track it started to roll on the track but by the time it got two thirds of the way down the spiral the ball was orbiting beneath the tracks.
I believe if one could tap into the vortex at the right time the speed of the ball would be quicker than that of a ball dropped from the same height.
I believe as in MT94 and Mt 95 at some time bessler played with this principle.
The MTToy i feel would be a horizontal application of this principle
For Besslers wheel a verticle application of the principle would need to be applied.
I first thought of this while looking at MT94 side view and MT95 front view
If we could put more spirals in the screw perhaps something might happen something like this...................see attached
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jimmyjj
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re: Spirals and gravity wells

Post by jimmyjj »

You could keep on adding more spirals.What is the limit?
Of course in application the ball may want to go the other way perhaps if we look at MT124 and incorporate this into the spiral?
i think it is impossible to use WM2d to duplicate the effects of spiral vortexs
accurately.
Well could the answer to perpetual motion lie at the heart of the galaxy?
Time will tell.
All the best Jimmy
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jimmyjj
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re: Spirals and gravity wells

Post by jimmyjj »

I thought i would add this other gif which i feel may have some relevance.It has three equal weights and three spirals
Jimmy
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re: Spirals and gravity wells

Post by ken_behrendt »

Jimmy...

There have been, historically, many designs for PM machines that used spirals. Basically, as a rolling ball drops in such a spiral design, the ball's loss of gravitational potential energy is used to increase the speed of rotation of the wheel that holds the spiral descent path.

There's really nothing magical about this approach and it turns out that the energy needed to raise the balls again from the bottom of the wheel to the central point on it where the spiral begins exactly equals the energy lost by a ball as it descends. Because an individual rolling ball in such a design does not lose enough energy during the time that a single ball is raised up so as to keep the descending stream of balls supplied, one must have more balls descending at any instant than are rising.

As kinetic sculptures, they are interesting to watch, but I doubt if they could ever be used to achieve PM...

ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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re: Spirals and gravity wells

Post by iacob alex »

.....this time an elementary experiment , involving a spiral trajectory due to gravity free fall , at : https://youtu.be/SXQ9VaYm3yQ
But...how about a possible " reverse" test movie ?...let's say a vortex vs antivortex ( as a white vs a black " hole "?)
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