Beliefs in God

[racer270]

my spelling was so bad, i edited it three times, and i dident see that you posted jonathan.., i apologize publicly......gordy






jim_mich
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Posted: 21st November 2005, 8:16 pm Post subject: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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Jesus taught about love, about forgiveness, about how to treat other people, about a 'kingdom' not on earth (in outer space?), about receiving something 'spiritual' from the 'father'. That something was described as a 'white dove' when Jesus received it and also later when his disciples received it. It was described as being worth more than gold.

There is a substance that can be made from gold that the ancients referred to as 'white dove', manna or 'what is it' that is rumored to be capable of producing everlasting life in a human body by raising the body's vibration level into the spiritual range, causing the human body to appear to glow.








racer270



Posted: 21st November 2005, 8:29 pm Post subject: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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jim the model prayer......Thy kingdom come, thy will be don on earth as it is in heaven,

Jim I can point you to Matthew 24:22 in fact, unless those days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved;but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
So the earth will not be destroyed litterally, but returned to its paradisical glory.

God's plan was for the earth to be a paradise from the days of the Garden of Eden, Satan did not derail God's plans, he merely delayed them, giving us all free will , to worship him alone, or not and to be able to choose our destiny.
God's principle attribute is love, forgiveness as you stated, Jim.






AgingYoung
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Posted: 21st November 2005, 8:49 pm Post subject: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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Quote:
Jesus did not convert anybody to christianity, "christianity" was never part of his gospel teachings. He preached the good news of the kingdom of God.
Christianity did not start until 300AD....., He taught the gentiles (people who knew nothing about God) he did not create a new religion.



...and the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Jesus didn't come to teach gentiles. He came to his own and his own knew him not. Jesus was sent to preach to the jews.

Gene



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winkle
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Posted: 21st November 2005, 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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racer270 wrote:
jim the model prayer......Thy kingdom come, thy will be don on earth as it is in heaven,

Jim I can point you to Matthew 24:22 in fact, unless those days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved;but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
So the earth will not be destroyed litterally, but returned to its paradisical glory.

God's plan was for the earth to be a paradise from the days of the Garden of Eden, Satan did not derail God's plans, he merely delayed them, giving us all free will , to worship him alone, or not and to be able to choose our destiny.
God's principle attribute is love, forgiveness as you stated, Jim.
...........................2Pe:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up....................2Pe:3:13: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Re:21:1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.....................Joh:18:36: Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence................eny one know the physics for a world hanging on a thread



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jim_mich
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Posted: 22nd November 2005, 5:22 am Post subject: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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Gordy, the kingdom spoken of is currently NOT on earth. It is in the heavens above, that is in outer space. Jesus spoke of a time when that kingdom would be extended to the earth. Jesus also states what type of people (beings) are not allowed into that kingdom. Liars, murderes, etc. are not allowed. So before earthlings will be allowed to travel freely though the outer space heaven kingdom we will need to change our ways. The 'gods' of outer space heaven will most likely need to step in to save mankind from using atomic weapons and turning ourselves into crispy critters, Matthew 24:22.

There once was a war in the heavens, where Satan and his followers fought the head honcho and his followers. Satan was the loser in that war that destroyed whole planets. So is is not beyond the posibility that at some time in the future the earth gets destroyed.

There is MUCH more I could write on this subject, but I still feel that Besslerwheel forum is not the place for such discussions.








racer270



Posted: 22nd November 2005, 8:49 am Post subject: re: In search of a basic principle for a gravity machine

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quote: from jim,

There is MUCH more I could write on this subject, but I still feel that Besslerwheel forum is not the place for such discussions.

Jim, me to,
i think the subject should be moved to " off topic".....for further discussion for those interested..................gordy

scott: can we copy / past the last page or so to a " NEW" subject in " off topic".....?

[Jonathan]

I didn't see that you had done this, I think that if Scott is able to, we should have him do this. But in case he's not able, I'll post again shortly what I posted in the other thread.

[Jonathan]

Revelation is written in Greek, and the word "heaven" in Rev 21:1 is from "ουρανος", which means:

1) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it: a) the universe, the world; b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced; c) the sidereal or starry heavens
2) the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings

The root word is probably "ορος", which means mountain, which probably comes from "αιρω", which means "to rear, carry, elevate".
Genesis is written in Hebrew, and the word "heaven" in Gen 1:1 is from "שמים", which means:

1) heaven, heavens, sky: a) visible heavens, sky: 1) as abode of the stars; 2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

The (unused) root word means "to be lofty".
Clearly, it is a thing common of many languages to ues the same word for things that are metaphorically similar. If I told you to rise above sin, you wouldn't ask how heigh sin is, what I'm measuring relative to, or what units I'm using.

>Satan was the loser in that war that destroyed whole planets.<
I was unable to find that biblical reference!

PS. I got this stuff here.

[ken_behrendt]

Interesting discussion of the meaning of "heaven".

Maybe it is not a "place" from which all things are visible, but, rather, a "state" from which all things are understandable. Perhaps it is a metaphor for ultimate scientific knowledge of the universe and denotes the status of an extraterrestrial race or union of races that has achieved total understanding of the nature of the cosmos!

Once such a state is achieved, all want, envy, greed, illness, and death are, via technology, forever banished. Those beings who achieve this glorified status have, for all practical purposes, achieved the highest possible level of cosmic evolution.

I think Arthus C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick were trying to suggest this in their movie, 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Well, we of present day Earth certainly have far to go in achieving this state. But, we are on our way. Who knows? Perhaps soon, beneficent extraterrestrials will arrive to encourage and assist us farther along on our planet's path toward cosmic perfection.

Amen...


ken

[winkle]

Ken where do you suppose those extraterrestrials have their beginning......from other extra-extraterrestrials...............that could turn into a pyramid scam

[Jonathan]

Qnza it Ken, not everything is about ET! Sometimes the Bible says something, and it just happens to mean what it says, and not something completely different!

[ovyyus]

If ET was so advanced then why didn't he bring his own phone?

[Jonathan]

psst...Bill...ET was accidentally marooned, and didn't wear clothes, so why would he happen to have his phone with him?

[ovyyus]

I suppose you're right Jonathan, but running around naked on a strange planet without a phone wasn't real smart either :D

[winkle]

seems to me like Mr. Bessler has spoken in the same fashion as the scriptures..........hide a thing in the best place.......right in front of whos looking for it.........writen in parables in plain sight......language of angels=parables......just open the bible and see

[Jonathan]

"Hiding in the Light"; 5X19 Folie À Deux, X-Files

[ken_behrendt]

Winkle asks a thought provoking question:

Ken where do you suppose those extraterrestrials have their beginning......from other extra-extraterrestrials

That is a question that I have wrestled with for some time. I believe that extraterrestrials, like humans, were created through the very slow, but relentless, process of evolution. That is, life originally came from non-life. Yes, I know a lot of religious people will be up in arms over a statement like this, especially with the current moves being made to teach "intelligent design" in American schools, but I have no problem with the concept of evolution. I do not see why an all powerful God could not use a physical/chemical process to create life slowly over the course of billions of years rather than in a few days through mere will. This makes more sense to me than believing the Genesis version of creation is literally true and that, as some fundamentalist claim, all of the geological, paleontological, and biological evidence accumulated over the last 300 years or so that refutes the Bible version was somehow planted there by Satan's demons to lead people astray.

From my study of the subject of ufology, I eventually developed my belief that all major religions on Earth were originally formed as a response to ancient humanities contact with extraterrestrial beings. However, I am amazed at how all such encounters aways seem to take on a religious tone to them with the only thing extraterrestrials giving to mankind being a moral code of some sort or a prophetic vision of the future of some sort. That is, ancient people never seem to get an tangible and usable techology from the extraterrestrials. Well, we still have the moral codes, although most of the prophecies have failed to materialize long ago.

Why, I wonder, would extraterrestrial beings be so concerned about morality on a planet like Earth? Why would then pretend to be emissaries from an all powerful God or group of gods?

One can rationalize this by just saying that the extraterrestrials were just using humanity's innate superstious nature to convey their message of morality which was intended to pacify humanity so that its population level would increase in an environment that suppressed warfare and lack of sanitation. But, then an even more interesting possibility occurred to me.

I reached the conclusion that the extraterestrials themselves must have their own religions! This means that it is entirely possible for a race of materialistic, technologically advanced, spacefaring extraterrestrials to still need and use religious beliefs! I then wondered what those beliefs might be.

Currently, on Earth there are hundreds of religions and dozens of "holy" books, so, obviously, I do not think an alien religion would be the same as anything down here. But, I suspect that it would certainly share many key concepts in common with them. For example, it would stress moral and ethical interactions with one's fellow beings, brotherly love, respect for elders, pride in accomplishment, and it might even talk about an afterlife. Of course, the cast of ancient characters would be different from those found in Earthly religions. But, I think they would have their own versions of messiahs, prayer, sin, redemption, etc.

When we finally do make "official" contact with extraterrestrials, I think what we will learn about their cultures will be absolutely amazing. We'll see that, despite a different genome and level of technological development, we're really not all that different!


ken

[Jonathan]

>I reached the conclusion that the extraterestrials themselves must have their own religions!<
Did ETs get their religions from misunderstood interaction with other ETs, or did God really only ever talk to them?

[winkle]

When we finally do make "official" contact with extraterrestrials, I think what we will learn about their cultures will be absolutely amazing. We'll see that, despite a different genome and level of technological development, we're really not all that different!

..........................................Ken what a beatiful vision..............but................they may be in the stone age or mabe just monkeys.....or just creapy crawly things..................we may have to show them how to make toilet paper...........that would be amazing.................evolution may not be a one way door ..........evolution may= man is not evolving from apes but into apes..................
fundamentalist = i want everybody to have things my way .............they are the self rightous............they have nothing to do with true religion ...............Lu:5:32: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance...........................fundamentalist should take that verse to heart and get out of everybodys face..........mabe have a good look in the mirror

[ken_behrendt]

Jonathan writes:

Did ETs get their religions from misunderstood interaction with other ETs, or did God really only ever talk to them?

Well, that's a very interesting question, indeed! In other words, what was the cause for the "first" religion in a universe. Yes, it could have been contact with a Supreme Being or some sort that existed prior to the evolution of sentient humanoid organic lifeforms...maybe some sort of premordial energy being of some sort that would be incomprehensible to we mere mortals. Or, the first religions could have just been based on primitive animism based belief systems. Those primitive religions just ascribe the motions of inanimate objects to having the "spirits" of animate beings, whether dead or alive, in them. Such religions can eventually hypothesize the existence of a Supreme Spirit in much the same way that primitive physics continues to hypothesize the existence of finer, more general theories that will rationalize phenomena. This eventually leads to the hypothesizing of an "ultimate" theory of everything (I think the physicists of present day Earth are currently chasing a "Super String Theory" to fulfill this quest).

However, I am convinced that the first true Supreme Diety type religions did not take root in our universe until one group of extraterrestrials developed the ability to visit their nearest less technologically developed neighbor in space. Then the Supreme Diety religion that develops from this contact can be backed up with a variety of technological miracles, empowered holy men / messiahs, etc. The physical contact element takes such a primitive religion to an entirely new level of authenticity.



winkle...

There is no way of knowing at this time what, exactly, the nature of humanity's first contact with extraterrestrial life will be like.

Yes, it might only be some bacteria on Mars or a squiggly thing swimming around under the ice layer on Europa.

Or, it might be a meeting with technologically advanced humanoid beings at one of their star bases on a moon orbiting one of the "Gas Giants" in the outer part of our Solar System.

Whatever form that contact might be, I can only hope that we will be open to it and not let irrational fear on our part cause us to do something stupid that could damage any hope of having continuing, peaceful exchanges with such life if it is sentient and if we can communicate with it in some fashion.

They will be our neighbors in space and, as most of Earth's present day religions require, we are to love our neighbors as ourselves...


ken