Oxygons Earth Day PMM

[gearhead]

Oxy why don't you try a simple test...take two small balloons and a thick plastic straw, attach one balloon to the end of the straw. Fill this balloon with water then attach the other balloon to the straw.

[Oxygon]

lifted/displaced/moved/evacuated/expelled...

There is a set amount of water in the vessel...

if set down the vessel weighs on itself...

The vessel as a whole weighs upon the bottom bellow and for every increment displaced an equal amount is displaced in the upper bellow...

In the "simplelevervessel.jpg" image...

On its end, how can this not be obvious to you?

if you have a single pipe with only "one bellow" at the bottom and allow it to fall upon itself the water displaced will be expelled from the unit as it falls "out and away" from the end of the pipe itself...

If the upper bellow is instead a simple dish... the water is then displaced in the upper reservoir/dish...

whether this upper reservoir is a sealed bellow or an open dish...

the water is displaced upwards...

[Oxygon]

Oxy why don't you try a simple test...take two small balloons and a thick plastic straw, attach one balloon to the end of the straw. Fill this balloon with water then attach the other balloon to the straw.

balloons wouldn't work... they are under tension and there is no body structure... to allow it to weigh upon itself... it would rush from one balloon to the other and then the tension from the un-inflated balloon would only inflate under pressures that are not able to be produced by the vessel weighing upon itself...

to perform this test and attempt to use it as a critical comparision would be a tragedy... it is not comparable...

the structure of design is very important...

Even semi-inflated balloons do not allow the vessel to act upon itself effeciently... as a "by design" based approached will... A straw is no stabilizing structure...

[ME]

If we borrow some of Paul's waterpumps, can your vessels be replaced by them? Like this:

[ovyyus]

the water is displaced upwards...

...because a greater mass falls. Your above diagram can only be true if the falling structure has a greater mass x distance than the lifted water.

[Oxygon]

...because a greater amount of water/mass falls.

... is this a agreement or sarcasm...?

I whole heartedly agree the vessels total mass exceeds the mass exchanged...

the mass is exchanged into the end... from one end to the other...

the drawing supplied are examples...

In some of them you will see the ~ sign indicating the length not shown...

the coloumn/pipe acting upon the bellow forces its mass upward into the upper reservoir/bellow...

[Oxygon]

If we borrow some of Paul's waterpumps, can your vessels be replaced by them? Like this:

...

I didnt want to go that route because of the frictions waterpumps present...

I wanted the vessel to act upon itself as freely as possible...

a bellow was the method I went with...

[ovyyus]

... is this a agreement or sarcasm...?

I whole heartedly agree the vessels total mass exceeds the mass exchanged...

the mass is exchanged into the end... from one end to the other...

Yes, the mass is exchanged from one end to the other AT BOTH ENDS. Look at your drawing - what is falling as the water is raised? If nothing falls, will any water be raised?

Certainly not sarcasm but I'm not sure we agree - yet ;)

[Oxygon]

The structural body provides the liquid mass body a means to act on the lower reservoir and the mass below is displaced....

[ovyyus]

Mass x distance lifted ("exchanged mass") is less than mass x distance lowered ("mass moved") - therefore - COG must also fall - therefore - no cigar.

BTW: your diagram above is only true if the syetem is held down with an additional force to G. The correct rest position would be about half inflated at each end under the sole influence of G, therefore your diagram is wrong as drawn.

[Oxygon]

What?

Where is the COG for a stick with a weight on it...? (analogy)

Depends on its fulcrum location...

If the fulcrum is the wheel itself, then the side with greater mass wins...

The COG of the vessel relates directly to the wheel...

The side with greater mass wins...

If the image above is the model resting on a table...

pick it up... what happens?

set it down... what happens?

[ovyyus]

Sorry, you got a post in while I added this:

Your diagram above is only true if the system is held down with an additional force to G. The correct rest position would be about half inflated at each end under the sole influence of G, therefore your diagram is wrong as drawn (assuming the water housing mass = zero).

[jim_mich]

If the housing mass is zero then all the water will flow to the bottom until it can hold no more. The housing will float upon the water in the bottom vessel.

[ovyyus]

Closer representation of rest position...

[Oxygon]

I understand what you guys are saying...

But the most important thing here is the specifications of the design...

the length and total mass of the main body and the shape of the reservoir...

the "main body" needs to be heavier than the lower bellow, that is easy enough becuase it exceeds it by 2 units of volume (the rigid portion of the bellows) plus the conduit mass... against the 1 unit in the diaphragm/expanded bellow...

I am glad we are talking...

Also I am glad we havent started calling each other names...

A few times I expected to be called a "stupid-stupid head"...

I will add that the conduit of the main body must allow an easy flow by a good width or length... this also adds mass/weight to the main body...

Given the picture you have shown... the mainbody conduit is small and I would imagine it staying there... maybe given your specs...

I dont see the same with a wider conduit...

If what you say is true...

If the device is nuetral...

If we agree that the "end state" of the proposed vessel is overbalanced inside a wheel of chambered vessels...

Then how easy would it be to manipulate this nuetrality and still use the overbalance...

Is the total overbalance of the wheel enought to reset a single nuetral vessel...

do you see where I am going with this...?