springs

[jonnynet]

here I've attached 3 animations for my wheel. the first animation shows how the wheel should work, the second one what would happen in reality and the third one demonstrates what happens without the interlock.

well, my design can't work but I think this is the way that bessler used: all the weights must be connected, one to each other, to stay always at one side of their axles. this connection among each other can contrived by a such frame I've used.

[LustInBlack]

Jonny,


Ok I understand what you've said about using only 1 axle now ..

I think your idea is not bad, but I don't see how your inner wheel should stay in place, there should be a gear to reverse it's rotation so it wants to climb instead of fall .. At the same rate that the outer wheel turns .


Finally, it doesn't looks like my last model, but more like my previous one .. ;]

But the difference is that you use just one axle, and according to your theory, it should be that way .

[bluesgtr44]

Perhaps a pendulum device that is counterweighted to hold it in place...just a thought.


Steve

[jonnynet]

there should be a gear to reverse it's rotation so it wants to climb instead of fall..

according to this suggestion the wheel shown below should work as follows:

inside the wheel's axle there is a transmission which lets the small gear rotate faster as the entire big wheel. this causes that the inner geared ring don't drop downwards, it will lift during the big wheel's rotation to maintain its position. consequently the weights would stay always at the right to their axles. But how could one realise such a transmission inside the wheel's axle? of course, the axle should be separated in two parts...

[LustInBlack]

A planetary gear system will reduce the speed of the large wheel
easily !

To reverse the direction, you could put a gear off-center of the axle connected to the planetgear output, but then you would need 2 axles..


But look at this image, maybe it can give you an idea !

Btw, I attach my last design, starts to look like yours but it's based on my immersion wheel (again) ..

[jonnynet]

yes, the image could let me anticipate the solution! at the moment I think of bicycles with gear shifts where the gearing is inside the hub of the rear wheel. so we may be sure that such a mechanics we need for this wheel is possible. as long as the overbalance from the weights is not propped up by a second axle, it should take effect.

[Madmax]

Ken wrote:

springs are critical to the functioning of Bessler's wheels

My newest machine makes something I call "redirection of energy" and springs are NECESSARY for temporary storing of energy coming from pendulum.

So I strongly agree with Ken and other "springers" :)

P.S. My machine is in the garage out of the city, but next weekend, I bring it into my house and all construction works will be faster.
I wanted to finish it before the 6th of Juni for comemorate the birth of Orffyreus, public exhibition of his first machine and my birthday.
Unfortunately I failed because of my sh....y time-killing job.

max

[ken_behrendt]

Max...

Good luck with your design. But, wasn't Bessler born sometime in early May and not June?

I agree that designs incorporating springs are the way to go. Probably every conceivable design without springs has been tried and none has ever worked.


ken


Hmmm...I wonder if Asa Jackson's wheel contained springs?

[jonnynet]

referring to my last drawing 'besslerwheel069' I have found the solution for a planetary gear system which can accomplish the required effect. thank you LIB for your clue! it will used as follows:
1. axle for the small gear that keeps the frame in position.
2. large wheel is put on this part that rotates around the faster spinning axle (1)
3. ring that is fixed to wheel's bearing/support

I think, if this planetary gear is built-in, the wheel has to work because we have such a case that the whole force from the weights remain on just one axle. in all the other cases, the effect of overbalance was canceled.

and what do you think? is this really the solution or just my claim it would be?

[rlortie]

Deleted post

[Wheeler]

referring to my last drawing 'besslerwheel069' I have found the solution for a planetary gear system which can accomplish the required effect. thank you LIB for your clue! it will used as follows:
[b]1. axle for the small gear that keeps the frame in position.
2. large wheel is put on this part that rotates around the faster spinning axle (1)
3. ring that is fixed to wheel's bearing/support
[/b]
I think, if this planetary gear is built-in, the wheel has to work because we have such a case that the whole force from the weights remain on just one axle. in all the other cases, the effect of overbalance was canceled.

and what do you think? is this really the solution or just my claim it would be?

jonnynet
Hello your approach seems very good.
You have me drawing ideas.
Can you post the system with weights and wheel in place?
If this is asking for details and you wish not to post, I understand.
Also what marvellous cad you have accomplished.
Beautiful work sir.
I am at the very least impressed with your ideas.

[jonnynet]

wheeler,
whenever I have an idea, whether it is the key to the working machine or not, I've no problem to publish it.
yes, of course, I will post a 3d drawing of the complete machine. but because I am not a professional in 3d studio max, I need a few hours. I'll begin this evening.

[Wheeler]

jonnynet
Just the ideas alone are wonderful, much less if you post 3D drawings.
I look forward to your approach and drawings.
Please take your time.
I walk 84 acres today so I am slightly busy.

[LustInBlack]

Wheeler :

You sound like someone who just wait for things to happen ..
Do you work on some ideas of your own !? ..


I didn't want to bring that, but now, you are almost asking for it...

[bluesgtr44]

Lib...

You sound like someone who just wait for things to happen ..
Do you work on some ideas of your own !? ..

We learn from these ideas...so as to further our own understanding and eventually, hopefully...find a solution. The purpose of a discussion board...much like this one.

Go back and check out some of the older threads and you will see that Wheeler has come up with some pretty good thoughts all by himself. Might be out of line here defending Wheeler...my apologies if that is the case. But, more importantly...just because someone shows interest in the ideas of others as a collaboration effort (much like a discussion board would offer...) only hastens the learning effort and moves us closer to a solution.

Now,

and what do you think? is this really the solution or just my claim it would be?

My first observation of the device is that it is very well balanced. I like the concept and have thought about the uses of planetary gears...I have had no success....yet, but I'm workin' on it....


Steve