springs

[jonnynet]

it must be in perfect timing and if his system is correctly designed, it may hold the key to a working wheel.

I'm not able to calculate the correct gear ratio so my system isn't designed correct.

I believe gears are only worthy of the trash bin

this is a reckless statement! but your arguments are legitimate.


it is obvious to me that this design wasn't besslers one, guaranted. and because it is a bit more complex, one cannot see the fault promptly.

when I build a machine I use the k'nex construction system so I save time and money. the disadvantage is here that I don't have so much possibilities and a system with gears like this one, I cannot build. finally I want to achieve a design that is realizable by k'nex, so if I have a working wheel, eventually, everyone would be able to recreate it easily. and when the mechanism that bessler used was really so simple as the history tells us, this plan is achievable.

I hope, god will give the humans a second chance and inspires one of us.

[bluesgtr44]

I see a bunch of concentrics that will eventually balance out....now, if one were to throw in an eccentric somewhere...hmmmm....


Steve

[jonnynet]

I would like to add another design which is similar to one I have seen here a short while ago. It was my first drawing that I've made after I became a member of this board. It is absolutely right that a weight can't lift itself by its own weight but perhaps several weights on the longer lever arm can lift one weight.
if it should turn then it do that only very slowly and no external work will be expected BUT it would be the proof that perpetual motion is possible.

[ken_behrendt]

jonnynet...

Yes, that design was presented before on this board and I think several models of it were made that showed that it did not work.

Apparently, no matter how many geared mounted individual weights are on the rim of the wheel, the amount of energy produced by the dropping of the composite CG as the wheel rotates always equals the amount of energy needed to turn the gear and raise the weight at the 12:00 position of the rim!

This seems paradoxical because one would suppose that if the gears were made with large enough diameters, then they would surely produce enough of a horizontal displacement in the composite CG of the wheel to provide the energy needed to lift the weight on a single gear. But, there is a problem of geometry involved here which always prevents this from happening.



ken

[jonnynet]

...bitter reality! a mechanism that is self-sustaining must be godlike. it is the most important aim in my life to rediscover the secret!

[primemignonite]

And so, jonnynet writes to us sharing his KEY observation and statement of belief, as follows:

". . . bitter reality! a mechanism that is self-sustaining must be godlike. It is the most important aim in my life to rediscover the secret!"

Ja! Sehr, sehr richtig!

Mother Nature IS most cruel to those to whom she does not whisper her Royal Secret!

I take it that you are German, and so, like Bessler, you intuitively comprehend this as a possibility; and what's more, your spontaneously fierce declaration of determination corresponds to the very identical spirit that Johann Ernst Elias had coursing within him, 'till das ende - no doubt about it!

You well may actually accomplish what others have not, and probably never will!

I salute you, and wish the very best of luck to yourself and your endeavors . . .

James (CIC, BesslerWheel)

[david_gaithersburg]

Perhaps the purpose of the springs would be to keep the strings from becoming tangled? Much like the purpose of the tension pulley on a serpentine belt or the raised wooden bar on a loom.

Everyone is looking for the springs to perform work, perhaps they just maintained order.

[ken_behrendt]

Welcome to the Discussion Board, David...

There are some here who doubt that the snapping noise that was made when Bessler was removing / installing the weights in the Merseburg wheel was actually made by a spring at all!

Yes, springs could have been solely used for tensioning purposes as you suggest. But, a spring is an excellent way to temporarily store and then deliver energy (either gravitational or kinetic) to a shifting weight during wheel rotation.

I have embraced the concept that Bessler did use springs and that they were, in fact, critical to his design maintaining the chronic imbalance of the CG of its rotating weights.

If you are beginning to work with WM2D, then you will realize that the proper adjustment of the tension of a spring in order for it to apply the force you want it to is a little more difficult than it first appears to be. Bessler, being a skilled clockmaker, would have been very familiar with the properties of a variety of springs and, most likely, could even have been able to custom fabricate his own for use in his wheels.


ken

[LustInBlack]

By the way, too much springs in WM2D will make it work at the same speed as a snail.

[jonnynet]

I had missed the subject already very much. you pick up it again - very correct!

[jonnynet]

sad to say I was out of ideas for several days but now I come up with my first design that uses springs. this wheel could spin in both directions and could be modified quickly to a one-directional one with more efficient output.

I hope you can see from the drawing how the wheel ought to act.

maybe it would be better to use 8 rollers to ensure that the frame don't drop down!?

[bluesgtr44]

I tried one in WM2D that was so similiar to that. What I found in my design is...it takes as much energy to compress the spring as the spring will release on the other side. Hope you have better luck than I did...


Steve

[jim_mich]

Jonnynet,

Your picture is confusing. You will need to describe the components. For instance there are four circles. The outer one is obviously the OD of a wheel. The inner one might be a circular hole or a smaller wheel. The two concentric circles which are upwardly off center from the wheel might be a ring or might be a slot. The pendulums seem to have two attachment point but what do they attache to? What parts are free to rotate or are maybe fixed? You need to describe the components or add color/texture/shading/details to the picture so we can understand your concept.

Just trying to help,

[jonnynet]

I am very sorry that I've skimped to give a closer description.

The outer one is obviously the OD of a wheel.

that's right.

The inner one might be a circular hole or a smaller wheel.

it's a smaller wheel, the described cylindrical disc.

The two concentric circles which are upwardly off center from the wheel might be a ring or might be a slot.

these two circles represents a ring, I called it the frame.

what you've named a pendulum is the unbalance causing weight. it has two attachment points (pivots), one is connected to the outer wheel (or the drum), the other one to the ring. the inner cylindrical disc with its four rollers (these rollers can be pressed to the inside of the disc) is to coordinate the frame and because this frame (or ring) is connected to all the weights, its position is determining the wheel's rotational direction.

[Wheeler]

jonnynet
Your design is beautifully conceived and seems like a very good approach.
However I think it may be a simple overcomplicated design of spring force on one side.
It may not however be able to copy the force at the opposite side.
This is a common misjudgment as we all progress in our hope of success.

Thank you for offering your research in this so freely.