What happened to the three wheels he didn't smash in a fit of rage?

[JohnnyD]

If he built 4 wheels and smashed the last one, what happened to the previous three? Just a thought....

JohnnyD

[graham]

I believe he either smashed or dismantled all of them JonnnyD.
None survived very long.

Graham

[Flywheel]

yeah, i think he either took them apart or smashed them, I have a question about this too, though. Whenever he smashed his wheels apart, what type of tool did he use (did he really "smash" his wheels apart with a sledge hammer or something, or did he saw them apart or set them on fire or something?) and when he did smash them apart did he take the bits with him, or did he just leave them there. If he took them with him, then why didn't he just take them apart? And if he just left the parts there, why isn't there any recording of this? I mean after all, wouldn't we then know what was in his wheel exactly? The only things that we would have to figure out is to where they go in the wheel and how they were use.


A bit off topic, but now I'm trying to build a coocoo clock! Then later I'm going to learn how to make an organ, just like Bessler! Maybe then I'll be able to learn his secrets! Mwahahahaaaaaaaa!! lol xD

[John Collins]

He destroyed all of his wheels, but the word, 'smashed' is an emotive one possibly used by his enemies. I think as well, there is an element of disappointment in the use of the word, by which I mean that I think those who commented about this and may have used such a word, were hoping that the wheel would be sold and the secret revealed. The last wheel which was found after his death was disassembled and unable to be reconstituted and I think that that is probably a better description of what he did to his previous wheels. He took them apart to protect the secret when he was about to move location.

No one could have seen him destroying his wheels, in case the secret was accidentally revealed, so at the most they might have heard him. I suspect that in fact he might have used the word himself. He only moved on when things got too rough - and he sought the patronage of the potential sponsor to enable him to sell his wheel. As he left a place and people asked him about the wheel, he probably said, he'd smashed it because nobody wanted it. A case of bitter disappointment and his own fiery temper I think.

John Collins

[ken_behrendt]

I think the only wheel that we know for sure was "smashed" was the giant Kassel wheel. What happened to the earlier wheels is anybody's guess. I know that if I had spent months carefully building a working gravity wheel, then I would not be in a hurry to smash it to protect its secret. I would just disassemble it and take the parts with me. What he probably did was re-use things like weights, springs, and bearings in latter wheels. Most of the "hands-on" mobilists on this Discussion Board are probably doing the same thing right now...cannabalizing past builds to minimize the work time and expense on the construction of their next build.

I agree that stating that Bessler "smashed" all of his wheels may be an attempt by an author to portray him has mentally unbalanced. No doubt, he had his "issues" created by his tough life experiences, but I consider him far from being "mad".


ken


P.S. Say, John, how's the progress going on that Bessler mechanism description that you think you've found in his literature? Are you getting closer to sharing it with the rest of us?

[John Collins]

Ken wrote ,

P.S. Say, John, how's the progress going on that Bessler mechanism description that you think you've found in his literature? Are you getting closer to sharing it with the rest of us?

Progress is slow due to conflicting calls on my time, but yes I shall be sharing what I know asap. However I don't want to do that before I've tested it by building some of the mechanism, and although it looks good on paper we all know how misleading these ideas can be. The clues or codes, call them what you will, are certainly there and the decipherment is plainly right, but they are still just paper clues and nowhere near detailed enough at this point to know for certain exactly how they should be built. The best way I can describe it is to say that I understand the concept and the basic design, and the details required to put it together are there but are rather ambiguous, and can be interpreted in a number of ways each of which appears to be valid, until a model is built.

I hope this helps and I also hope you understand my reticence in revealing anything before I publish.

John Collins

[ken_behrendt]

John...

My excitement levels are beginning to rise...I can hardly wait to see what you have come up with! I'm hoping that this is finally "it"...we all could use a rest!


ken

[Flywheel]

wait, so people found the broken pieces of besslers last wheel? So then why don't we know exactly what he used, just not where he used them?

[PIMAN]

It is interesting too, that, of the many designs in MT, no non-running builds seem to have revealed themselves, either. I speculate that JB was very thorough to leave little to no evidence as to how he arrived at the solution. I would bet money that if one could examine even the unsuccessful builds, it would be helpful in the discovery of the solution, since, by understanding his construction techniques we would get a glimpse at the inner workings of his mind and his talent for resolving mechanical challenges.

Then we would have to be killed, though, which puts a damper on the whole notion.


PIMAN

[ken_behrendt]

PIMAN...

I find it interesting how few springs appear in Maschinen Tractate.

In his writings, Bessler hints that he used springs in his wheels (but, not in the manner suggested by his detractors...that is, not to provide power like a clock's mainspring), yet these are virtually missing from MT. I think there are only about two or three drawings which show something with a spring like quality to it.

I think that the missing drawings from MT might have contained several design elements either completely missing from or only occasionally shown in MT. If these could be determined, then it might give us a clue to what was in those missing drawings.


ken

[1712]

John Collins wrote:
"Progress is slow due to conflicting calls on my time, but yes I shall be sharing what I know asap. However I don't want to do that before I've tested it by building some of the mechanism, and although it looks good on paper we all know how misleading these ideas can be.the cluesl, are certainly there and the decipherment is plainly right, but they are still just paper clues and nowhere near detailed enough at this point to know for certain exactly how they should be built. "

Hope you get the painting and gardening done soon and can begin to build your latest try.
Would you be able to tell if the codes and your accurate decipherment say whether the weights shift from side to side, or is that still priviledged information?

AND, if all the noise during Bessler's wheel operation was just put there to misdirect knockoffs or was it really a by product of a genuine self moving wheel?

What you say about Bessler's message sounds like it is very nebulous. Why would he have made it so uncertain if his aim was to communicate the secret?

I think Bessler hatched a diabolocal scheme, and that he probably didn't really have a working wheel. He just wanted to tantalize everybody for as long as possible. Just like others on this board...

[pstroud]

John,

We look forward to any new clues you can have deciphered and shared with the forum members to assit with wheel designing.

Your ongoing support and dedication is greatly appreciate!

Preston

[John Collins]

The gardening and painting's done, 1712, and I'm trying to build the model now. I can't tell you how the weights move - that might give it away.

The noise was inherent and not included to misdirect. Of course he might have added additional falling weights to add confusion.

How the clues are read might probably be more obvious to someone else, but for me, I can say with certainty how many mechanisms there are, and how they move to generate the over-balancing effect. I know how many weight were used and I also know the design concept and understand why it works. I know why it has been missed and also that it is astoundingly simple.

In a way I think you're right, in that Bessler hatched a diabolical scheme designed to tease us. There is plenty of evidence that he relished poking fun at people who wanted to understand his machine, but I am certain that his machine worked and that he left an overwhelming amount of coded clues to tell us so.

I only hope I'm right and have not deluded myself into thinking I have the answers when really I don't!!

Thank you Preston, much appreciated.

John Collins

[LustInBlack]

John, can you tell us why it has been missed?! Or that might give it away ?!

[ken_behrendt]

John wrote:

I know how many weight were used and I also know the design concept and understand why it works. I know why it has been missed and also that it is astoundingly simple.

So far, you are describing my soon to be posted design. However, I think that the number of weights used was somewhat variable depending upon the type of wheel one considers. For example, the minimum number of weights would have been four and a one-directional wheel could use anywhere from 4 up to a maximum, perhaps, of 12 weights. When considering the two-directional wheel, those numbers would have to be doubled.

I am more optimistic than ever that "the" secret of Bessler's wheels will be known to us before the end of this year!


ken