A government worker has his three square meals a day, during which time he reads one comic book a day, which he enjoys immensely. He's done this every day for years. For my convenience, the cost of his food for a day exactly equals the cost of his daily comic book. Which has more value, the food or the comic book? The values are apples and oranges. Without the comic book, he is miserable. But without the food he starves to death and doesn't get to read the comic book either. The inherent value of the food takes precedence over the implied value of the comic book, regardless of which this worker values more.
I thought about it and couldn't find anywhere that information can be more than an implied value. Even the oerator's manual to a new car, even if included in the cost of the car, is a service supplied with the car.
I'm concerned about American productivity. My reading of the difference between personal money spent on American goods vs services from BEA figures may not support that our economy is parasitic, but it looks like it to me. I'll note one other BEA figure, then drop this subject. From Table 3.2, 45% of the interest paid by the US Government goes to other than Americans. It was 0% in 1950. www.bea.gov
US GNP
Moderator: scott
-
Jim Williams
- Aficionado
- Posts: 734
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:08 pm
- Location: San Francisco
re: US GNP
And therein lies the problem. When your own growth is funded by other countries & economies buying your govt bonds etc & lending you money, they demand that the bonds & borrowings have interest paid, without default.
The interest earned by them circulates into their economies reducing their need to borrow or fund externally.
High borrowing affects both individuals & countries when the available surplus all goes to servicing loans. There is little flexibility or ability to bounce back from a knock.
Most economies go thru phases of development & growth where the proportion of tangible goods produced to services supplied changes over time. The wise ones, I should think, try to stay within certain ratio's to limit risk & exposure to decline or war etc. Reduced growth by tightening the money supply is not politically popular but tightening the belt may save a triple-by-pass at a later date.
There is always an ebb & flow of wealth between countries & economies. The trick is not to get over indebted to someone else to fund growth or even boost a stagnant economy or make it more productive. They might not be so understanding as your dear old mother.
Reserve Banks employ intelligent people who build & run economic models. They are very sophisticated but it boils down to horse trading a number of variables, depending on the govt of the day.
The interest earned by them circulates into their economies reducing their need to borrow or fund externally.
High borrowing affects both individuals & countries when the available surplus all goes to servicing loans. There is little flexibility or ability to bounce back from a knock.
Most economies go thru phases of development & growth where the proportion of tangible goods produced to services supplied changes over time. The wise ones, I should think, try to stay within certain ratio's to limit risk & exposure to decline or war etc. Reduced growth by tightening the money supply is not politically popular but tightening the belt may save a triple-by-pass at a later date.
There is always an ebb & flow of wealth between countries & economies. The trick is not to get over indebted to someone else to fund growth or even boost a stagnant economy or make it more productive. They might not be so understanding as your dear old mother.
Reserve Banks employ intelligent people who build & run economic models. They are very sophisticated but it boils down to horse trading a number of variables, depending on the govt of the day.
re: US GNP
Jim Williams,
Welfare recipiants are not counted in your statistics and now almost outweigh the working population. Why must I press #1 to speak in English when it is my native language. Why do I pay taxes to my school district so the teachers can learn a required forgin language. Can I put it any plainer?
Ralph
Because in 1950 I was not required to have a random urine analysis to hold a job, to pay taxes, for welfare recipients who are still not required to give a urine analysis.Table 3.2, 45% of the interest paid by the US Government goes to other than Americans. It was 0% in 1950.
Welfare recipiants are not counted in your statistics and now almost outweigh the working population. Why must I press #1 to speak in English when it is my native language. Why do I pay taxes to my school district so the teachers can learn a required forgin language. Can I put it any plainer?
Ralph
re: US GNP
so what are you saying
the uneducated
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
re: US GNP
Personally, I don't like where this is going. It is well established that children benefit greatly in all areas of life by learning more than one language. It is also common knowledge that this nation, perhaps more than any other on earth, is a nation of immigrants. None of us but the Native Americans can claim to have any "native" rights here. And even those didn't turn out so well.
-Scott
-Scott
Thanks for visiting BesslerWheel.com
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
-
Jim Williams
- Aficionado
- Posts: 734
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:08 pm
- Location: San Francisco
re: US GNP
I don't like where I've been going with this either. I could continue to post different statistics to prove this that or the other, but I see no useful purpose in doing so. I am concerned with where I see this country heading and I don't like what I'm seeing, but my posting is just plain too confusing to bring any clarity or meaning to it.
I continue to find patents that claim to be gravity motors. One in particular cites other patents I've brought to this board, but were dismissed. I'll answer for what I've posted, but I plan no more GNP arguments.
Jim W.
I continue to find patents that claim to be gravity motors. One in particular cites other patents I've brought to this board, but were dismissed. I'll answer for what I've posted, but I plan no more GNP arguments.
Jim W.
re: US GNP
Jim Williams
I have been watching your posts and comments from others and I want you to know I hold similar fears.
I also hold hope for people who research and want things like the rediscovery of Besslers Wheel and basic principal of physics.
Please if you have any more statistics or insights about how we live and decide our way of reward to each other, I would want to read it.
I have noticed the lack of willingness in some to work hard, while I notice ones who are willing are overworked.
After the industrial revolution, I think a change in how we work began to emerge, but has not been understood along the way.
Something is not understood about when we decided to start to leave farming and begin the new adventure of mass production and self gratification.
If a Bessler Wheel or similar idea is found how do we place it in our current system of money?
Is the idea of a new hope to be part of the profit and gain of the rich and powerful, or is this something to be given to all mankind?
Thanks for putting this thread together.
I have been watching your posts and comments from others and I want you to know I hold similar fears.
I also hold hope for people who research and want things like the rediscovery of Besslers Wheel and basic principal of physics.
Please if you have any more statistics or insights about how we live and decide our way of reward to each other, I would want to read it.
I have noticed the lack of willingness in some to work hard, while I notice ones who are willing are overworked.
After the industrial revolution, I think a change in how we work began to emerge, but has not been understood along the way.
Something is not understood about when we decided to start to leave farming and begin the new adventure of mass production and self gratification.
If a Bessler Wheel or similar idea is found how do we place it in our current system of money?
Is the idea of a new hope to be part of the profit and gain of the rich and powerful, or is this something to be given to all mankind?
Thanks for putting this thread together.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: US GNP
Ralph, just to be clear, I completely agree with your argument about welfare. As a staunch libertarian I am against welfare in general. I am also against state owned and operated education (i.e. indoctrination).
But if we are going to have forced public education anyway (which we are), then I would at least hope that it meets the highest standard of quality possible, which is unfortunately quite low given the fact that the state is in charge. But even still, I am comforted by the fact that it includes some basic exposure to foreign languages, which is important.
-Scott
But if we are going to have forced public education anyway (which we are), then I would at least hope that it meets the highest standard of quality possible, which is unfortunately quite low given the fact that the state is in charge. But even still, I am comforted by the fact that it includes some basic exposure to foreign languages, which is important.
-Scott
Thanks for visiting BesslerWheel.com
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
re: US GNP
Scott,
I thank you for your thoughts after your first post. It did leave me with an apprehensive mood.
My point was not about children and up until your post were not even mentioned on this thread.
My point is that there are two many people in this country demanding welfare and free this and free that. I have no problem with our educational values offering language lessons on an elective basis. But to pass a State law requiring all students to learn Spanish is ridiculous.
As an ex host Parent of exchange students and having a house full of students from Germany, Uzbekistan, Romania, Turkey, Georgia Thailand and a few others. These Kids spoke English other wise they were not allowed into our country.
They of course could make no sense out of why they were attending a high school in the United States that required them to learn Spanish. Was any of their languages offered or mandated. The answer is no!
Believe me if any of these teachers spoke and or taught German I would be on a first name basis with them
As for the GNP, I recently read where the biggest export item from the Port of New York was recycled cardboard!
Ralph
I thank you for your thoughts after your first post. It did leave me with an apprehensive mood.
My point was not about children and up until your post were not even mentioned on this thread.
My point is that there are two many people in this country demanding welfare and free this and free that. I have no problem with our educational values offering language lessons on an elective basis. But to pass a State law requiring all students to learn Spanish is ridiculous.
As an ex host Parent of exchange students and having a house full of students from Germany, Uzbekistan, Romania, Turkey, Georgia Thailand and a few others. These Kids spoke English other wise they were not allowed into our country.
They of course could make no sense out of why they were attending a high school in the United States that required them to learn Spanish. Was any of their languages offered or mandated. The answer is no!
Believe me if any of these teachers spoke and or taught German I would be on a first name basis with them
As for the GNP, I recently read where the biggest export item from the Port of New York was recycled cardboard!
Ralph
re: US GNP
Thank you Ralph, we are on a much closer page. My hackles were raised when you said:
-Scott
That's when you brought up children and education. For me, the fact that public school teachers must learn a foreign language is a small blessing in an otherwise bleak educational landscape.rlortie wrote:Why do I pay taxes to my school district so the teachers can learn a required foreign language.
-Scott
Thanks for visiting BesslerWheel.com
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
re: US GNP
A Lesson Taught
Father-Daughter Talk
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth.
She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican
which she expressed openly. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich & the addition of
more government welfare programs. Based on the lectures that she had participated in and the occasional chat with a professor she felt that for years her father had obviously harbored an evil, even selfish desire to
keep what he thought should be his.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the
truth and she indicated so to her father. He stopped her and asked her point blank, how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she studied all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew.
She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many
college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was
taking a more difficult curriculum. Her father listened and then asked, "How is your good friend Mary doing?"
She replied, "Mary is barely getting by." She continued, "She barely has
a 2.0 GPA," adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never
studies. "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a
blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't
even show up for classes because she is too hung over."
Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.
The daughter visibly shocked by her father's suggestion angrily fired
back, that wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did
without, and Mary has done little or nothing. She played while I worked
real hard!"
The father slowly smiled, winked and said, "Welcome to the Republican
Party."
Father-Daughter Talk
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth.
She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican
which she expressed openly. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich & the addition of
more government welfare programs. Based on the lectures that she had participated in and the occasional chat with a professor she felt that for years her father had obviously harbored an evil, even selfish desire to
keep what he thought should be his.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the
truth and she indicated so to her father. He stopped her and asked her point blank, how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she studied all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew.
She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many
college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was
taking a more difficult curriculum. Her father listened and then asked, "How is your good friend Mary doing?"
She replied, "Mary is barely getting by." She continued, "She barely has
a 2.0 GPA," adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never
studies. "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a
blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't
even show up for classes because she is too hung over."
Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.
The daughter visibly shocked by her father's suggestion angrily fired
back, that wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did
without, and Mary has done little or nothing. She played while I worked
real hard!"
The father slowly smiled, winked and said, "Welcome to the Republican
Party."
re: US GNP
i know you have to be more intelligent than that
the young girl was working hard the old rich guy was setting on his butt talking crap
i hope your not so foolish as to be saying that rich men work hard all the time and that poor men do nothing
how many rich men have you seen picking cotton
are any other work as far as that goes
when have you seen any of the rich break a sweat except when the market goes down
wealth to last a thousand life times would not be enough for some
greed never departs from the greedy until death takes it away
and this
the young girl was working hard the old rich guy was setting on his butt talking crap
i hope your not so foolish as to be saying that rich men work hard all the time and that poor men do nothing
how many rich men have you seen picking cotton
are any other work as far as that goes
when have you seen any of the rich break a sweat except when the market goes down
just in case you don't get the quoteWhen all sins are old in us and go upon crutches covetousness does but then lie in her cradle
Thomas Dekker
wealth to last a thousand life times would not be enough for some
greed never departs from the greedy until death takes it away
and this
have a nice dayCovetousness swells the principal to no purpose, and lessens the use to all purposes.
Jeremy Taylor
the uneducated
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
re: US GNP
Winkle,
I am so glad to hear how you feel about sharing. I will be happy for you to share part your income with me! when can I expect the first check? I have lots of medical expenses to cover, or would you prefer I just send you the bills!
And by the way do you believe the rich guy got rich off of welfare checks or food stamps. Believe it or not, there are a number of us who believe in working for a living. Even cotton pickers have been known to be self sustaining.
Ralph
I am so glad to hear how you feel about sharing. I will be happy for you to share part your income with me! when can I expect the first check? I have lots of medical expenses to cover, or would you prefer I just send you the bills!
And by the way do you believe the rich guy got rich off of welfare checks or food stamps. Believe it or not, there are a number of us who believe in working for a living. Even cotton pickers have been known to be self sustaining.
Ralph
re: US GNP
Sorry Ralph but I have to ask - isn't sharing at the core of any community? Where would we all be without sharing? You already share part of your paycheck whether you like it or not (tax and charity).
Without the spirit of sharing, this website would surely not exist. Without sharing, how much information would be freely available about Bessler and his wheel? I think all that sharing will lead someone to the solution one day.
Even though I am almost certain that the re-inventor of Bessler's wheel will probably try to capitalise on all the sharing and the hard work of others - for his own personal gain - many people here still gladly share. Why?
Without the spirit of sharing, this website would surely not exist. Without sharing, how much information would be freely available about Bessler and his wheel? I think all that sharing will lead someone to the solution one day.
Even though I am almost certain that the re-inventor of Bessler's wheel will probably try to capitalise on all the sharing and the hard work of others - for his own personal gain - many people here still gladly share. Why?
re: US GNP
Ralph
are you drawing a pension
do you send that part that someone else contributed
back to them or just keep it
if you keep that part i guess that tells the whole story
even if you worked for the government they took taxpayer money to give to you
did you get a free education to learn how to make money
i think if you delved into it you would find that you have been shared with rather nicely
however i do think your way of yea for me and screw the other guy
is one way to get rich
maybe
not the most honorable but still an avenue
it's kinda sad but sharing for some is just a one way street
have a nice day
are you drawing a pension
do you send that part that someone else contributed
back to them or just keep it
if you keep that part i guess that tells the whole story
even if you worked for the government they took taxpayer money to give to you
did you get a free education to learn how to make money
i think if you delved into it you would find that you have been shared with rather nicely
however i do think your way of yea for me and screw the other guy
is one way to get rich
maybe
not the most honorable but still an avenue
it's kinda sad but sharing for some is just a one way street
have a nice day
the uneducated
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine