MT135
Moderator: scott
Re: re: MT135
Please see the wiki page here: http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... rtal:Myths for a debunking of this quote.Mixleplix wrote:"The secret, if there was a secret, lay in the ingenious manner in which the weights on the ascending side of the wheel were prevented from following their normal path next to the rim. Count Karl said that these weights were blocked by small pegs which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith."
Thanks,
Scott
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"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
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"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
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re: MT135
I'd give a couple hay pennies to know where Frank Edwards got his information from !!! from what i know of this old wheel of mine he was closer to the truth than anyone gives him credit for . the key being his mentioning that they "swung back out of the way after passing the zenith' . which each individual one did after launching the weight . so i give him some credit on that one . he just didn't have the full concept , but was tapped into SOME knowledge from somewhere , IMPO !!
An ingenius method of keeping the ascending weights from following the outer wheel ,,,.... saw tooth gullets ??????? Hmmmmmm ,,, makes one wonder dont it ??? !!!
Also study the quote "children playing with clubs amongst the colums"
the colums being the spokes of the wheel , the "clubs" refers to the levers .
Just my personal ramblings , pay it no mind !!! iffn ya do it'll make your head hurt !!!!
"Doc."
An ingenius method of keeping the ascending weights from following the outer wheel ,,,.... saw tooth gullets ??????? Hmmmmmm ,,, makes one wonder dont it ??? !!!
Also study the quote "children playing with clubs amongst the colums"
the colums being the spokes of the wheel , the "clubs" refers to the levers .
Just my personal ramblings , pay it no mind !!! iffn ya do it'll make your head hurt !!!!
"Doc."
re: MT135
@Stewart
Can we use your thread to look at MT135?
Also contribute to the clues and model the dynamics?
Can we use your thread to look at MT135?
Also contribute to the clues and model the dynamics?
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re: MT135
Hi Stewart, It maybe old business but important.
Reff. Mt-135 I see the spokes as sliders. Sliders are the superior way to over balance a wheel. See MT-15 and MT-136. See 300 clues, Prime Mover, #1.
Andrew Witter has it right. I.E. , MT-15 shows the superior way to over balance a wheel, (thank you Rocky). However only two sliders are required.
The hub has 6 cams. This, I feel, is a clumsy way or method to show a possible way to reset the sliders. Which would never work of coarse.
Anyway it try's to suggest some way to reset the sliders. Mt-136 seams to suggest a magnet, to do the resetting. Also not workable.
Sam
Reff. Mt-135 I see the spokes as sliders. Sliders are the superior way to over balance a wheel. See MT-15 and MT-136. See 300 clues, Prime Mover, #1.
Andrew Witter has it right. I.E. , MT-15 shows the superior way to over balance a wheel, (thank you Rocky). However only two sliders are required.
The hub has 6 cams. This, I feel, is a clumsy way or method to show a possible way to reset the sliders. Which would never work of coarse.
Anyway it try's to suggest some way to reset the sliders. Mt-136 seams to suggest a magnet, to do the resetting. Also not workable.
Sam
re: MT135
This is the start of a MT135 simulation model.
Click on the picture for a clearer view.
The rod can slide through the hub.
Now I have to get the maths in place.
Click on the picture for a clearer view.
The rod can slide through the hub.
Now I have to get the maths in place.
Yes, of course.agor95 wrote:@Stewart
Can we use your thread to look at MT135?
Also contribute to the clues and model the dynamics?
This is a very old thread and a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then! I don't consider MT135 to be a PM design itself but rather a depiction of an arrangement of holes and sliders through an axle and used in conjunction with other figures.
Stewart
I'm not sure you've understood Andrew's translation exactly (and who could blame you as it's confusing)...Sam wrote:Sliders are the superior way to over balance a wheel. See MT-15 and MT-136. See 300 clues, Prime Mover, #1. Andrew Witter has it right. I.E. , MT-15 shows the superior way to over balance a wheel, (thank you Rocky).
I've transcribed Bessler's handwritten MT notes myself and translated them, and this is what Bessler says:
... From this bare/simple drawing however there is nothing to see and to gain/perceive from where exactly a prime mover* should come, although the figure shows the Uberwucht**.
* Primum Movens (latin) = prime mover
**Uberwucht / Ãœbergewicht = preponderance, overweight, excess (of) weight, overbalance
(also see this topic: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6183)
In Andrew's translation the word 'superior' comes from the 'Uber' part of the word 'Uberwucht' (overbalance), so it can't be interpreted as a superior overbalance or "superior way to overbalance a wheel".
Although Rocky did a fantastic job of collating the many so-called clues in his 300 clues topic, please bear in mind that much of the information is not accurate.
Stewart
re: MT135
@Stewart
I agree with you that we have to use the information with care and treat it as partial or not accurate.
Regards
I agree with you that we have to use the information with care and treat it as partial or not accurate.
Regards
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re: MT135
Stewart, I stand corrected!! Peppiatt
re: MT135
I am thinking Bessler is giving a clue.
A balance scale can be used to measure a masses weight.
So can a spring scale.
Imaging a spring being a component and that gets stretched
more in one and less in another section.
The clue is the fixed mass appears, using the scale nature
of a spring, to indicated the weight is more or less.
A balance scale can be used to measure a masses weight.
So can a spring scale.
Imaging a spring being a component and that gets stretched
more in one and less in another section.
The clue is the fixed mass appears, using the scale nature
of a spring, to indicated the weight is more or less.
re: MT135
This is an animation with the resulting path shown of the weights.
I am looking at turning it into a simulation.
The device is in equilibrium when horizontal.
To be Bessler Compliant there needs to be four these rods.
Also they should not move between such extremes.
If you want help in installing VPython, no cost, then Private Message me.
I am looking at turning it into a simulation.
The device is in equilibrium when horizontal.
To be Bessler Compliant there needs to be four these rods.
Also they should not move between such extremes.
If you want help in installing VPython, no cost, then Private Message me.
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re: MT135
Agor95
I'm fairly certain that Bessler's wheels had only two sliders, 90 degrees to each other. The wheels were too thin to have four sliders. Also two sliders shift or fall 4 times, ( 4 thumps), and the "lifters", (weights / levers) fall four times to shift the sliders, (four more thumps). Or; a total of eight thumps per revolution, as reported by Joe F.
The big problem is the lifters. I.E., how did the lifters reset the sliders. I don't know how to do it, maybe you can figure it out.
Sam
I'm fairly certain that Bessler's wheels had only two sliders, 90 degrees to each other. The wheels were too thin to have four sliders. Also two sliders shift or fall 4 times, ( 4 thumps), and the "lifters", (weights / levers) fall four times to shift the sliders, (four more thumps). Or; a total of eight thumps per revolution, as reported by Joe F.
The big problem is the lifters. I.E., how did the lifters reset the sliders. I don't know how to do it, maybe you can figure it out.
Sam
re: MT135
@Sam
Thank you for your advice.
There is room to try different implementations.
We can then show members the simulations.
Those who have the free software they can run them for themselves.
Regards
Thank you for your advice.
There is room to try different implementations.
We can then show members the simulations.
Those who have the free software they can run them for themselves.
Regards