20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

a. the intentional perversion of truth; b. an act of deceiving or misrepresenting

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Michael
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by Michael »

Randi's just commented on this guys web site on his web site. Makes me wonder if Randi's been cruising here or if the guys been casting a lot of lines. Randi says he asked the guy if it's ever worked and the reply he gets is yes, the first model. Randi then closes his statement by saying "these are the dreamers." Should be schemers in my opinion.
meChANical Man.
--------------------
"All things move according to the whims of the great magnet"; Hunter S. Thompson.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by FunWithGravity »

"putting weights and levers inside wheels till my head explodes" camp

Maybe i should shorten that,

I love magnets, i'm going to put them all over my wheel when its done and use it as a big generator.


I got snapped at for mocking Dr Quinn when he first came out, i can smell a yuck yuck from a mile away. But i love his physics, i could run down to the local bowling alley and convince everyone in their quinn is a genius.

Low class swearing $1
Referencing the MAN or MIB when explaining science $1
Biblical referances about physics $5

another fruitloop with the answers for mankind, priceless.
A great discovery solves a great problem, but there is a grain of discovery in the solution of any problem.
RRRRyan

Post by RRRRyan »

FWG, LOL!

I think Quinn actually thinks that ignoring the energy required to lift the other 1 ton mass will make it disappear from the equation. We should take a lesson, that is delusion at a grand scale. He'd be better to just stop thinking and get back to tinkering. It's the outright lie that he had a working one that makes this so evil. Our community is vulnerable to such claims and I guess that's why there is no shortage of them.

Has anyone figured out the farse behind that Australian company's wattage amplifier? Of course if it were actually adding wattage then it should be able to loop itself and create energy, but apparently it cannot do that for some reason.

LIB - Ah, so we are likely not too far off... but resonance sounds like quite a challenge. Have you had any promising results? My first reaction would be that it would take quiet an energy drain to get the resonating started quickly enough to transfer apparent weight before the system slows, and the waves would travel in all directions, similar problem to magnetic waves, though I do know that a dude figured out how to focus sound waves and his invention is now used by the military. So it seems likely that the same could be done with any form of resonance.

I think I mentioned before that I think magnetic fields are vibrating (as the electrons travel their orbit pulses like a wave in the sea) very quickly, which to me better explains the lines they leave behind. I also think their net affect appears to be perpendicular from the face but the actual forces are all curves.

Sound waves do have a linear component. I looked but couldn't remember the name of that neat little sound gun thing. I think I saw it on discovery or something like that. He somehow did focus the vibrations into straighter lines and only in one direction. If you haven't already heard of it I'll search more.

A gun seems the logical place to start with sound and magnets (FE rail gun) ... all a gun does is accelerate some mass. The catch with sound though is it isn't free. Hmmm.... if magnetic fields do resonate though, hmmm... it seems plausible that they could cause a lower frequency vibration in certain substances. Has anyone ever seen anyone claim to make sound with fixed magnets? MRIs introduce the radio wave resonance and speakers introduce electricity. I mean just a fixed magnet sitting still causing something to detectably resonate at sound frequencies.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by evgwheel »

We have many pages in this forum on how to get a working wheel out there (after we invented it) for the good of society, without big business making it their own or stopping free energy becoming free to the world.
Eskimo Quinn (Archer) is making it available as an open source. What ever you may think of the guy and his unique way of presenting his ideas. It has merit. Very few people I know would share their projects in such an unselfish manner. I hope his ideas work out and if it doesn’t, his openness is very refreshing.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by ovyyus »

Lying has merit???
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by rlortie »

Evgwheel,
Eskimo Quinn (Archer) is making it available as an open source. What ever you may think of the guy and his unique way of presenting his ideas. It has merit.
Making what available? If he were to say it was an idea he would not be in such deep doo-doo!

We all can present ideas and the consensus can agree that they have merit. But to get on a soap box and say you will deliver on a given date that you cannot fulfill, to my thinking does not have merit. Sure his way of presentation gained a large audience on more than one forum, but now it will die on the vine.

All in all it may leave Archer at the bottom of the barrel, but there was/is some positive results created. It has brought a number of members in various forums to a common acknowledgment of each other. I have never had the influx of private mail he created. O-U seekers wishing to discuss his design, share their ideas and brainstorm together.

Ralph
RRRRyan

Post by RRRRyan »

I still think outright lying about having created a working model is completely inexcusable. His claims are not remotely feasible but he injected merit by claiming to have made it work.

Open and free discussion will produce results sooner than everyone running off and working on their own ideas especially when a dozen or so at any given time will be working on similar ideas. Don't give him too much credit for being open though. It doesn't take much good will to be open about an idea off the top of our head, they are called opinions and people often share those as quickly as they think of them. Complex theories, especially unique ones, of which Quinn's was not (unique nor complex)... those take a long time to develop and often are quiet difficult to explain. Maybe being the results of hours and hours of observation and adjustment.

Those complex theories are what need to be mulled over. Especially when they come from years of effort and experience. FE is a tragedy that has probably happened a hundred times over. One person or another, like Bessler, too paranoid to share, maybe unlike Bessler they are 90% there and surrounded by people with the other 10% but... again it doesn't happen. It is just greed.

Did Einstein every patent any of his work? The deepest trap of FE is when the solution is too complex to actually build without significant investment. We can draw it, just can't build it... Then the would-be discoverer with delusions of grandeur spends savings, investor's money, and their family and friend's to get patents and legal protection, to try to build it, and to go down in flames. If they weren't so paranoid and greedy there were probably a half dozen people who could have spotted the error before the crash.

I haven't been as forthright lately simply because so many folks voiced discontentment with it and I have been frustrated when folks share opinions off the tops of their heads because they think themselves so advanced that they can recognize the flaw with a single glance. Even in the midst of Archer's BS I looked closely at his idea. Even ideas that seem silly at first, I chew on. I'm a bit obsessive. I'll spend hours contemplating things. Drives my wife crazy.

BTW, I am working on the most recent design I posted. It looks neat, but I haven't been able to construct a stable mechanism. I've also videoed a phenomenon that will likely play into the next iteration of my development. I'm happy to freely share anything... I just don't want to talk so much that I end up ignored. I'm afraid I'm already entering that territory. It doesn't help that I type so fast. I should resign to hunt-and-peck to cut down on the size of these posts. LOL.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by LustInBlack »

Ryan,

Actually, I don't have results, just ideas.. I was quite motivated to build a modified replication of Milkovic's lever, I have a great idea to measure the output efficiently.. However, some guy convinced me to learn the math first.. So I must find time to learn all those physics math and calculate before I build...


For the resonance thing, there are those sono-waves on a sheet of metal, they display different patterns relative to frequency..

I think, using a media between two plates oscillating at different frequency, thus creating different patterns, we can create a "virtual movement" .. Like forcing an object between the two plates to follow a certain path..

All of this require a bunch of energy.. However, I am no more looking for energy out of nowhere, I firmly believe that there is a process that will trigger some unusual manifestation..

All in all, I think I just want to discover something unusual and use it for this Bessler wheel research!
RRRRyan

Post by RRRRyan »

wow, our friend quinn is still updating his build page. He found SMOTs on the internet and is claiming to have invented them? he also is creating some field modeling magnet arrangement out of aluminum to conquer the wall. he talks it all through as though he is certain it will work just like before. so basically he is explicitly documenting his latest build. if he had just done that in the first place i woulda still checked back regularly to see how it goes. if i thought anyone cared i'd do the same. but at this point ...

oh my gosh, i just had a terrible thought, what if bessler was just like quinn and wagner had his number? oh noooooooooooo, i've been fooled by a con man? us honest people, we are so gullible. since we are morally incapable of blatant deception on much more than a trivial level we think others have the same standards. geesh. then bessler did all that bible quoting, he really must have been a pretty messed up guy to propagate such a lie in such a way as he did. looney... and the faith dies.

oh well, just cause bessler was a fake doesn't mean i can't keep trying, but of course i'd have to be crazy to. maybe i'll change my mind tomorrow. i hope so... sorta... but then maybe i'd be crazy.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by rlortie »

Lib,
For the resonance thing, there are those sono-waves on a sheet of metal, they display different patterns relative to frequency.
Its called an Australian "Warble Board"a musical instrument.. Maybe if you ask ovyyus nicely, he will play you a rendition of "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" :-)

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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by Fletcher »

You see Ryan, there is a big difference between Quinn & Bessler - Bessler actually built & demonstrated numerous wheels over a long period of time - these were tested & scrutinized by experts in many fields - without divulging his secret or showing the internals of his wheels [& Wolfe took a peek thru a slit] he accommodated any reasonable test they could devise - he even built the bi-directional wheels to answer Wagner & Gartner's criticism that it might be spring powered [can't be if accelerates both ways & then holds rpm because a spring system needs an anchor point to leverage off] - the real kicker - Karl got to see the inside workings & was a well educated man of influence & social standing, with a reputation to maintain - he could not afford to be duped or conned so this seems unlikely, though always a possibility.

Did Wagner have Bessler's number ? - in one sense, yes - when you boil it down Wagner was convinced that a PM machine could not mathematically or mechanically exist [& was in good company] - Bessler called it his gravity PM machine so this was IMO the real source of the conflict & antagonism between them - Bessler avoided entering that debate beyond a superficial level [couldn't be drawn into it IMO] relying instead on semantics to cover his secret i.e. at that time the definition for PM wasn't entirely set in concrete - as an example Cox's Clock [barametric pressure clock] was invented shortly after Bessler & Cox legitimately [as he & others thought] called it a PM machine, yet we today wouldn't consider it as such.

This murky area of definition could have been clearly addressed by Bessler at the onset with Wagner & others - he chose not to engage so you have to wonder why ? IMO he had very probable cause to not go there !

I think simply that Bessler was so well documented & tested that the balance of probabilities suggest that he had some sort of FE wheel, & so I can't leave it alone, nor dismiss it as fraud. JMO's.
RRRRyan

Post by RRRRyan »

thanks fletcher, i haven't given up.

some one stop me. I keep reading his stuff and it is really scrambling my brain. I imagine something like bad drugs. Someone please read his latest post, what is he talking about? No wonder he hates Newton, he has not only re-invented every mechanical device under the sun he has re-invented Newton's theories and then refutes his version. He gives this mind experiment where he creates a balance that has a short and long end (lever) but then says cut the long end to equal the short, and then says they balance even though Newton says the long end can't balance. WAH! Then he talks about counter weight on oil pumps and cranes (does he know that cranes move their counter weights outward to compensate for the long arm weight?) ... he claims the oil pumps gain energy because of their counterweights.

anyone know why i can't just ignore him? am I a masochist?

what really bugs me, as you all know, spring loading (similar to counterweighting) has been an important part of one of my design tracks. however now i am actually not even getting my own theories any more...

So anyone, please, tell me... am I delusional to think that by spring loading a pivot joint I can move more weight with less weight than if the joint was not spring loaded (clothes pin effect)? I tried to get WM to show me some big examples but it does such goofy things, like bouncing forever. hmmph.
Last edited by RRRRyan on Mon May 12, 2008 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by ovyyus »

Ralph, I'm no Rolf :D
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re: 20th June 08 - PM machine to be revealed ?

Post by Fletcher »

PSST Ryan .. AQ's a fruitcake - he stuck his own neck in the noose - leave it till the 20th to see if it tightens & he swings - if he comes good, fantastic, I'll eat dollups of humble crow pie along with many others & gladly - at least he's building - if he's wrong don't expect him to change spots however.

Build something small to see how springs affect them - you can delay or advance some specific folding or opening action but you cannot remove the symmetrical nature from their actions - that is, if they are gravity operated.
RRRRyan

Post by RRRRyan »

LOL, I'll keep telling myself that.

ovyyus, I liked the "probably" answer you swapped out. I'm not completely without a sense of humor.
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