Veljko Milkovic Oscillator

[arthur]

pendulum oscillator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

gravity is a source of energy.

[scott]

If gravity is a source of energy, why does he have to keep pushing it?

[arthur]

he is not working very hard; gravity is doing most of the work.

the force of oscillation is greater than
the force needed to keep pendulum in motion.

that is of course the concept.

please admit it is an interesting concept,
and it certainly appears to be true...

If this is a flawed concept then I challenge someone to prove it wrong.

unfortunately this experiment was not done by me,
I was not there to measure the exact input & output forces so clearly I cannot provide proof right now.

someone should measure this in a more accurate manner than this flashlight set-up.
.......

it seems like many of you folks on this forum would ignore a gravity wheel even if you saw one.

[rlortie]

arthur,

EDIT: It is my opinion that it is true and yes; [the force of oscillation is greater than the force needed to keep pendulum in motion.] it is extracting it for utilization that is the problem.

The Milkovic pendulum is not being ignored. The concept has been repeated many times. Research that I am either involved in or aware of is attempting to devise a way to turn the reciprocating output into full rotation.

That device was recently brought to light here by a link to YouTube called "living motion".

The machine I am involved with has a pendulum pulsed by a small voltage solenoid with solid state circuitry including a Wheatstone bridge rectifier on a CAD cut PBC panel that feeds the back emf back into the source. The idea is to create a resonating pulse that will maintain synchronization.

Ralph

[Fletcher]

Hey arthur .. why don't you take a look at www.overunity.com for the multiple threads on the Milkovic Oscillator - read what everyone has to say, or has said - Hans von Lieven probably gives the best analysis of this device in terms of input energy v's output energy & why its not OU in his opinion - he has it on his web site.

You'll see that it is extremely hard to couple an impulse force to the swinging pendulum because of its slightly chaotic nature - this means mechanical systems are almost impossible to design that wouldn't waste an enormous amount of energy so that it could be pulsed & measured properly.

But make up your own mind !

IMO its an interesting idea alright - its a simple way to create a pump action that doesn't involve hand pumping a lever - you just swing the pendulum each stroke but it lifts only a small amount of water each stroke & in the water pump video it is not lifting any water from any depth at all [just recycling it], which takes a lot more effort.

[Michael]

arthur his isn't the first machine that required an impulse to be applied to the machine to keep it running, there have been several like that over the past 12 years. Take a look on the net for the history. Sad fact is none will work without human interaction, and when you do the right analysis you see there is more in fact going in than out. You state he isn't doing much work, I disagree. Note that he's actually using a fast and somewhat hard motion that he's applying to the weight. The distance he's doing it in is short so it's deceptive. If you know how energy works you'll know that when you double the speed of something, you are actually quadrupling the energy. When he stops adding his energy the swing deadens quite quickly and significantly.
I don't think your comments about members here not knowing a gravity wheel if they saw one are at all fair. Many have been working on the concept for years and know what it is they are seeing.

[rlortie]

Michael,

I disagree with a good portion of you above statement. and am willing to participate in a debate over our indifferences.

The following is a brevity edited quote from MS Encarta Dictionary containing excerpts and my additions.

Oscillation, in physics, chemistry, and engineering, is a repeated motion back and forth past a central neutral position, or position of equilibrium. A single motion from one extreme position to the other and back, passing through the neutral position twice, is called a cycle. The number of cycles per second, or hertz (Hz), is known as the frequency of the oscillation.
A swinging pendulum or a plucked violin string eventually comes to rest if no further forces act upon it. The force that causes it to stop oscillating is called damping. Often the damping forces are frictional, but other damping forces, such as electrical or magnetic, might enter into an oscillating system. Natural Frequency may also dampen if not considered in the desired range.

Any oscillating object has a natural frequency, which is the frequency an oscillating object tends to settle into if it is not disturbed. For example, the natural frequency of a pendulum 1 m (39 in) long is 0.5 Hz, which means the pendulum swings back and forth once every 2 seconds. If the pendulum is struck lightly once every 2 seconds, the amplitude of the swing increases gradually until the amplitude of oscillation is very large. The phenomenon in which a relatively small, repeatedly applied force causes the amplitude of an oscillating system to become very large is called resonance. Many of the serious vibration problems in engineering are caused by resonance. If, for example, the natural frequency of the body of an automobile is the same as that of the series of combustions in the engine when the car is traveling at a certain speed, the body might begin to vibrate or shake roughly. Such vibration can be avoided by mounting the engine on a damping material such as rubber to isolate the body from the engine.

Flutter
A dangerous type of vibration is the sudden, violent oscillating motion known as flutter. This occurs most frequently in the control surfaces of aircraft, but is also seen in the "galloping" of sleet-covered electrical transmission wires in high winds. One of the most spectacular instances of flutter caused the collapse in 1940 of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Tacoma, Washington. The collapse resulted from a gale that blew at a speed that enhanced the swaying frequency of the bridge.

The amplitude of vibration of a structure might increase so rapidly when subject to flutter that the structure disintegrates almost instantaneously.

Harmonics also fits into this category and is something that Bessler would have been aware of due to his experience with organs. Other related fields include but are not limited to Sound and wave motion. The harmonic correlation was once brought to the forum by Denis, where the graph of fifths and sevenths was imposed on a Bessler depiction.

Human interaction is the key words of your statement. Maintaining a synchronous and resonant cycle by human endeavor IMO is fruitless.

That is why there is now ongoing research into electronically controlling a small synchronized pulse to Milkovic's pendulum, creating a resonant amplitude. Once achieved the required input will be greatly reduced.

The age old example of the boy on the swing, do you give him one large push to achieve an amplitude of nine o'clock, or do you use repetitively short one finger pulses to achieve the same goal.

You may reply that the same amount of work was accomplished only in a longer time period. To that I will not debate, but all in all I believe that the Milkovic pendulum does have its merits. If for no other reason the mechanical feed back of the system is like no other I am aware of.

Ralph

[rlortie]

Just received the following from a Milkovic pendulum builder.

Ralph,

You might be interested in the this... just in today, R


Dear friends,

professor and physicist Nebojsa Simin from Novi Sad (Serbia) published now his original scientific paper on two-stage mechanical oscillator in the journals and on internet. He believes he found the theoretical way to explain the energy excess in two-stage mechanical oscillator.

You can find the full paper on the next link:

Original scientific paper - Free energy of the oscillating pendulum-lever system - by Nebojsa Simin:
"...The effect of creating the free energy is defined in this study as the difference between the energy which is the machine transfers to the user system by the lever and the energy which is input from the environment in order to maintain the oscillation of the pendulum. Appearance of the free energy is not in accordance with the energy conservation law. The effect of creating the free energy results from the difference between the work of the orbital damping forces of the lever and the work of the radial damping force of the pendulum motion. This effect enables increase of the input energy. The coefficient of efficiency of the machine can be more than one."
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Ne ... system.pdf

Best regards.

Veljko Milkovic

Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillations Research Lab

[ovyyus]

...The coefficient of efficiency of the machine can be more than one.

They can't seem to prove that claim even though it's been around for over 6 years now. Wonder what the hold up is? Perhaps the answer is in one of the many books Milkovic offers for sale on his website?

[rlortie]

Bill,

I agree, after reading the whole paper, in my opnionit does not prove one way or the other.

I just got of the phone with a fellow researcher, his comments are that if the horizontal beam or working end is held down it does create notable force. but if the beam is allowed free osculation then it dampens the output of the pendulum.

I believe the concept has merit, but the application needs improvement. I am only looking at the possible kinetic and inertial properties available in a pendulum with a moderate weighted bob. Driving force only need be a resonating pulse or tap once per cycle.

This does not mention the potential of the CF that would go from positive to zero twice per cycle.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

I believe the concept has merit, but the application needs improvement.

Ralph, I see it the other way around - the application has merit but the concept, in terms of an excess energy output, is wholly lacking (ie: there's nothing there to improve upon).

[rlortie]

Bill,

I understand your point and I wish I were in a position to debate it. I am simply engrossed in what a little in (this case moderate) obvious pull on a swinging pendulum can make considering the weight mass.

Note here in the incense pot link... (botafumeiro) this shows them pulling down as the pot passes by them, in other words the exact opposite of Veljko's
pendulum...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jV8t3uqoYo&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QFd_55El1I

These links were provided by the builder of the machine I am in contact with.. I thank him for the input. I only wish I were in a position to reveal him by name.

Ralph

[DrWhat]

Holy smoke!

[AB Hammer]

Not safe to get up to go to the bathroom at that church. LOL

But it does show an interesting effect for possible of acceleration.

[Michael]

What you have there is an incense pot whose radius of travel is being shortened by the rope pull, so it's rpm is increasing but is length of linear travel is not.

Ralph you said you disagreed with most of my post but you've left me scratching my head wondering what in my post you've disagreed with. I am guessing you've generalized and your disagreement pertains to you feeling there is perpetual motion to be found in this machine. I can only wait for the proof to be set forth. But I'll say this, a real movement has to be made away from "" that looks unique so maybe..." towards one of "mathematically what's going on here" for progress in discussion to occur. Just want to be blunt.