one of the machines with the math

a. the intentional perversion of truth; b. an act of deceiving or misrepresenting

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Post by DrWhat »

I think regardless of any warranted or unwarranted criticism of John Collins, he remains in my mind up there as the best of the best in regards to the Bessler phenomenon. He is the one publishing the original documents (ie copies of them), he is the one who has done extensive research. Full praise to you John, you are the one who has inspired me to pursue the Bessler madness (maybe I should be angry with you instead!!)

To publish a book means deciding that at this point there is new information to reveal. If John you were to wait until you had all the answers, you would NEVER publish, (or on the other hand you would publish the final solution to the Bessler Wheel). So at some point you need to just get it out there.

Would you mind putting your mutt (ie face) in the next book. Just curious I guess.
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Post by Stewart »

Doc - now I understand why you're calling me names! I guess I'll have to get used to my new title then as I stand by my decision to delete your post in my forum. I'm trying hard to piece together all the information I can as accurately as possible and backing it up with evidence. In my opinion there is no place for your made up stories in this process - there's enough confusion already and your stories only serve to confuse the issue and are no help in solving the wheel at all. If you provide some new information with some written evidence to back it up then that would be worth listening to and you're welcome to post it in my forum any time you like, but for your yarns please post elsewhere or why not start your own private forum or blog. Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh, but in my opinion we need to take this Bessler research seriously or we won't stand a chance of solving it and we would probably be better off just ignoring the Bessler information and trying to make a wheel without it.

Lord WhistleBritches (of Devon)
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by FunWithGravity »

Stewarts Said
"we would probably be better off just ignoring the Bessler information and trying to make a wheel without it. "


IMHO most of the bessler infomation will be either wrong or will have been so grossly misinterpreted ( not mistranslated) that it will be laughable. It will be easy to find similarities after the fact by making them appear but thats all it will be.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by bluesgtr44 »

There is but one thing that cannot be denied....and that was the information gathered from the demonstrations. There could be some discrepancies as far as some tidbits are concerned, but if a person is of the mindset that Bessler was NOT a fraud.....this information is the most valuable to me because he could not control the disemenation of it! Basically, he couldn't do the "greed is an evil root....." crap. And this information is derived from more than one source. And these sources were credible unless someone can show me otherwise....Wolf, Leibniz, Rowley, Weise......

Some of you probably do tire of me throwing this stuff out there....but, c'mon....it makes you really think about what the heck was actually going on inside that contraption....for real. Not just that "almost" full rotation and then the old pendulum action till it just reaches that PQ moment. He found the way to allow weights on a decending side to apply themselves forcefully on that axis.....and produce excess torque/power/force. To do this he had to alleviate this weight (W = M x G) on the ascending side of the wheel. So, how'd he do it? Well, I'm workin' on it.....and I still go Bupkiss!


Steve
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by docfeelsgood »

LORD Whistle Britches Of Devon ;

I most certainly do take offense at your stating that I made up these stories !!! what amazes me is that YOU along with everyone else believes that this whole Bessler saga dead ended with Johanns death !! dont you have documented proof that he was married and had children . do you seriously believe that his children were spayed or castrated ?? well what in your opinion ever happened to these offspring and future generations of his ??? is it totally impossible that future generations of the Bessler related family never migrated to america ????? dont be absurd !!! can you really believe that people in prussia were so happy and content with their meager lifestyle as day laborers that no one would ever leave ????? thats just pure nonsense !!! life was good in england also wasn't it ?? i have documented proof that in england they employed children as young as two years as field workers . the average life span of the workers was 17 years old !!! we all have heard the stories of the fate of the irish people and how great the fat cat feudal lords living high on the hog in dublin were treating them . anyone who believes that europe was such a great life in those days is dumber than a box of ROCKS !!!! but then agiain your ancestors decided to stay there didn't they !!! I rest my case !!!

BUT you say if i have ANY info that will help you solve the Bessler puzzle then by all means bring it to your forum !!! now i ask you what incentive do I have ????? its nothing more than give ME your ideas and money so you can be rich and FAMOUS !!! after being constantly called a liar here why would i have any incentive to do anything furthur ??? you people cant even figure out what i have brought forth so far !! and yes there are still a few hidden tidbits but if you cant figure out whats already on the table then its useless to bring them forth !!! once again I rest my case and await your expected reply

P.S. now what do you ever imagine happened to Johannes son in law "John Adam Crone" who JC says he has proof that the secret was passed to him ??? do you suppose they never ever discovered sex and produced offspring ???

"DOC" !!
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by Fletcher »

Steve .. I think one of the the fairest accounts is 'Wagner's critique' - if anything he was slightly jaundiced towards Bessler which makes his observations [if not his theories] probably the most objective & reliable & should be reflected upon in conjunction with the witness reports, imo - also, Wagner addressed reports in the local gazette or newspaper about Bessler's wheels [Gera] which is information from outside Besslers own carefully constructed answers & writings.

Part of the problem with Bessler's own words is the time lines & that he must have adapted his basic principle over the years - you never quite know which wheel interior he is describing at any time other than knowing its one of the ones before the time of his writing - you can probably summize that the wheels were getting more refined & efficient & more powerful over time [allowing for the relative inefficiency of the later two-way wheels compared to the more powerful earlier one-way wheels] as he found more ways to use his principle to create overbalance or give greater kinetic impulse on one side of the wheel or a combination of both perhaps - ultimately, via his principle, he created asymmetric torque that turned a wheel - he certainly suggests that a number of MT's could work if you knew his principle & that, by deduction, is a principle that gets each displaced/repositioned weight system past the PQ sector & accumulates momentum into the wheel, some of which can be bled off for external work, IMO.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

doc wrote:now what do you ever imagine happened to Johannes son in law "John Adam Crone" who JC says he has proof that the secret was passed to him ???
Doc, where does John say he has proof that Bessler's secret was passed on?
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by AB Hammer »

Greetings All

I just finished reading what Quinn has on his web page. I had to take 3 aspirin after looking at his diagrams of the fulcrums. What people are not looking at is that a swinging fulcrum's dynamics change and is very misleading. For when the arm is up the shorter end of the fulcrum becomes shorter and the longer part of the arm becomes longer and vise versa. This by no means proves Newton wrong at all (as Quinn like saying), for when you add the change in dynamics you will have to take all in account. The reason people don't think of the swinging fulcrum is you have to have a stand for it and when you use a leaver you normally only have a rock to pry on to move something, or you stick it into the ground to push up on to push something up or over. The other additives he added to his diagram? can only be answered with a resounding DUA!! LOL redistributing the weight LOL

And yes I said swinging fulcrum not Egyptian but they did use swinging type fulcrums and they fit well on a home made tripod or quad pod to hang from.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by docfeelsgood »

Boiler Bill ;

A copy of Johannes paper declaring that he has found in John Adam Crone a person worthy of all his knowledge and presenting him with his daughter for marriage is in J.C. files . we have discussed this before on the forum but i cant give an exact date but i will go back and try to locate it . the original document was undated but J.C. had narrowed it down to a certain time frame . of course Crone was the blacksmith at Kassel , and i'm not talking farrier but a person making scientific instruments and ornate work .

Johann is dead !! untill someone straps on a pair of balls and does the research to find whatever happened to Crones children and grandchildren to see where the "secret" finally ended up , that will solve the mystery !!

Doc.
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Re: re: one of the machines with the math

Post by axel »

John Collins wrote:
With Collins, he shouldn't say when his book will be published and then not do it. Now he says he'll be back on it to you all in two to three weeks, and to publish for sure, working wheel or no, by year's end.

Three strikes and you're out.
Quite Axel. I erred in thinking I had everything I needed for the book and of course I shouldn't have announced any kind of date for publication.

But these things are kind of forced on you because people ask, firstly have I found any more info since the original book? Then, when will it be shared? Then when will it be published? My fault I know, but it's easy to find these dates slipping by with no sign of finishing imminent. So I should say nothing? I don't know, maybe you could tell me?

Only three strikes and I'm out? I think I have had more than three already.

JC


I'm sorry Stewart and "J.C", but the way in which you both have responded to the criticism here, has caused me to form the personal OPINION that you all are shifty and untrustworthy.

I will buy your new book,but only after about six months has passed since its publication.

That's how confident I am neither you nor anyone else will ever solve the problem with the information you have.

Axel
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by FunWithGravity »

@allen,
I was just pondering the life of this thread (and others) and thinking about how much good information a found burried a few pages back in some crazy threads. One guy make a crazy claim and then 3 pages in someone else make a good comment and the thread gains some legitimacy.

This is not one of those, it went from quin to docs heritage, to JC but now i'm with you, Lets stay on track with "one of the machines with the math" I think its fun to watch that thread @ OU but its more like an afternoon soap or the VIEW. I can't stand much more than a few posts and then i puke. It is fun to see you ralph and stewart interject some intelligent info every now and again and then watch it get burried 10 posts deep in a matter of minutes without any acknowledgement. My only contributions in the roll on thread have been.

First few pages, said he was wrong and a loon, then later on i added the electric slide and another one bites the dust, Heck might as well be some more entertainment in their.

I have had and currently have an opinion of what he is doing and its going to be quite similiar to Chas Campbell. I think he is going to try and combine all these 6 ways he thinks he can beat newton and make one monsterous machine thats so hard to determine whether its OU or not that he will have those guys scratching their heads for months. One machine will power the other and so on in an endless loop thats all powered by a plug but he'll have his generator at the end pumping out 3500KW and claiming free energy.
He'll never close the loop and noone else will either but all along it will be because the proper materials just don't exist yet or just need to be fine tuned.

IMHO those threads about quinn and chas that go on for that many pages are more a statement of human nature and the way we in teract than they are a valid discussion of anything that will lead to OU.

Like most i will be waiting for the 20th. LOL
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by AB Hammer »

fWG Dave

It is like a soap opera, on OU I didn't even get a response, but that can tell you other things like they don't know what to say and such. What put two and two together for me was ancient tech and how it was done and thin I read his page LOL LOL but the diagram brought it to light. When the ancients use the fulcrum it was hung from a rope and then the weights where either tied to the end or hung from another rope. Almost like a leaver hung from a pendulum it would swing back and forth. So there are so many variables of measure he thinks he can claim more power. the best way you can test it is to attach a pole to a swing and you can watch all the possible variations. But all and all I still think it resembles the drinking bird. LOL

PS a hanging weight will also have variations of positioning for it will swing to.
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"

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Post by Stewart »

Sorry guys - it has turned into a bit of soap. I still feel the need to respond to doc though, but will post in a new topic to avoid swamping this one with off-topic stuff.

Stewart
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

Doc wrote:A copy of Johannes paper declaring that he has found in John Adam Crone a person worthy of all his knowledge and presenting him with his daughter for marriage is in J.C. files...
Doc, do you have a copy of this letter? I would like to see it if you or anyone else can post a copy.
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Post by Stewart »

Bill - here's the link to the topic where John talked about it:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1371
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