one of the machines with the math

a. the intentional perversion of truth; b. an act of deceiving or misrepresenting

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ovyyus
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

Thanks Stewart, I'd forgotten that thread. I'd like to know more about this document and, specifically, whether it might indicate that Bessler did indeed pass on his secret before his death.
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Post by Stewart »

Yes, me too. Can you give us any more information on it please John, or perhaps even post a scan of the original document?
Thanks.

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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by FunWithGravity »

Hello All.

I am not following the thread at OU but can't seem to get the date out of my head, anyway i remembered that 20AUS 19 US, so that is tomorrow. Can anyone give me a quick update as to what going on. I'm assuming its as most expected , nothing. but just in case. Is there a special channel i should tune into to watch quinn change the world or is he still changing directions and onto another machine?

Dave
A great discovery solves a great problem, but there is a grain of discovery in the solution of any problem.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

The OU forum thread on Quinn has turned into a marathon 67 pages (and counting) of opposing views and feelings. One side of the debate champions logic and reason, the other side encourages hope and faith. I'm sure it will end as it always does - with a wimper - and the search will continue for something that actually works.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by FunWithGravity »

Strangely enough i think the guy has a legitimate chance of stumbling onto some type of overunity somewhere with everything he is doing. Somewhere in the juxstaposition of conservative forces i believe their is a harmonic balance that will lead to a great breakthrough.

I know that myself and others have the tendancy to ramble on and threads change direction and most of the time end without much happening but the OU forum has a talent for wasting multiple pages on nothing at all except banter. All in all it seems the Gravity wheel arena has been slow for a while.

John has plans but has not had a chance to build it. Allen has five wheel, 3 one way and 2 bi directional, and a patent that we'll all think is cool? Alex has made break through that he's waiting to get something before he shows us. A whole bunch of people have fun with 2d models that don't take into acount that 3rd dimension and run forever. 2d Springs? is their such a thing? I have a worker that needs to be assembled LOL.

My thirst for gravity based web humor has been dried up as of lately. Can someone just join the board and make a crazy claim with some religious rhetoric and some swearing and brighten my day. Oh yeah and tell us how stupid we are.
A great discovery solves a great problem, but there is a grain of discovery in the solution of any problem.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by primemignonite »

I was away for awhile doing other things.

What happened re the Eskimo Queen Fiasco?

It's over, right? It did not go of itself?

Why MUST we abide such sadistical manipulation?

James
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

Quinn's narcissistic ego trip is dead. The outcome was predictable and obvious to anyone with even a basic understanding of math and physics. But what's really sad is how Quinn doesn't now own up to the fact he was wrong and admit that he lied. He now blames everyone and everything for his failure and has left the scene with all his devoted followers beached high and dry in the baking sun. Pathetic.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by hansvonlieven »

G'day all,

I have watched the Archer Quinn disaster from the sidelines and have refrained from commenting on his experiment so far.

It is obvious that he has little idea of physics and that his math is questionable to say the least. Add to that his, at times, belligerent posts and it would be pardonable to see him as an ignorant fraudster. Shades of Joe Newman.

Just lately however I have developed a sneaking admiration for the man and have begun seeing him in a somewhat different light. More than anything, it is his reaction to his failure that caused me to re-evaluate the man.

It would have been easy for him to sweep his failure under the carpet by NOT releasing video Nr. 6 and instead pretend to be offended by someone's comment (God knows there were enough of them) and tell us to go to hell.

He did not do this.

Instead, he published his failure, knowing he would invite another round of ridicule.

In an understandable initial reaction he felt like throwing it all in and walk away from the whole project. He documented even this.

Having dealt with his disappointment he picked himself up by his bootstraps and started to examine just what went wrong. He is now trying to correct this. He is actually documenting his attempts at repair.

On top of this is the fact that he put his money and energy into this project without asking for anything other than perhaps recognition of his efforts.

These are not the actions of a fraudster.

He has balls, that is for sure and he has the courage of his convictions. Few men have this to the extend he is demonstrating.

He may be misguided, I don't know. I further don't know if he really had a working device at one stage. It is quite possible he did and did not and still does not understand what made the thing go. What we are witnessing may well be an attempt to re-create something he once fluked.

In that he would not be alone. Howard Johnson claimed to have had a working device at one stage and then tried unsuccessfully for many years to re-create it.

He will discover his errors in regards to physics in due time if he keeps building. There is no better teacher than reality.

I believe now that he is sincere in what he is trying to do and I wish him luck. I can put up with his antics, I have seen worse from people far less dedicated than he is.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Hans von Lieven
When all is said and done, more is said than done . Groucho Marx
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

Hans, how do you excuse Quinn for lying? He repeatedly claimed (lied) that he already had self-running machines 2 years ago. Given his current situation it seems clear that his claim was a calculated strategy to draw in (sucker) as many people as possible. Whether he's an idiot or a fraud (what else could he be) I'm sure we shouldn't be encouraging this kind of deception.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by hansvonlieven »

Well Bill,

You are assuming he lied. Whilst this is a distinct possibility I am not so certain that he did.

I consider it well within the realm of possibility that he did stumble on a solution and so far has failed to duplicate it. It could explain his determination and also his belligerence towards people who don't believe him.

Keely at times reacted in a similar fashion though Keely's choice of words was not as crude as Archer's.

Archer has a streak of the old Aussie larrikin in him, of that there is no doubt, but whether that is a bad thing or not remains to be seen.

Hans von Lieven
When all is said and done, more is said than done . Groucho Marx
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by ovyyus »

Hans, I don't need to make the assumption that Quinn lied. He is on record as claiming an already running PM. Inexplicably, the current content on his website includes a statement that he never claimed a previously working machine. Go figure.

It should be obvious that if he did actually achieve such a success (with more than one machine, he claimed, which kind of eliminates the excuse of it being a solitary freak success), he would not be so predisposed to the constant redesigning of his 'replications'.

All things considered, when we take his evident lies and misdirection, his demonstrably non-applicable math and physics, his constant changes in design direction, and his utter failure to produce anything close to 'working', then we should be left with a clear picture of what's going on.

Therefore, the question remains: idiot or fraud?

Perhaps a possible answer to that question is currently displayed on his website: he currently pleads for donations, has a donate button, and promises (yet another promise) that he'll only take $20 per hour for his time.

You see, I can't help but think that all his hard work will pay off handsomely when the thousands of true believers he has suckered in with a few well positioned lies all chip in a few bucks each. But I don't think the self-confessed genius will be happy with $20/hour for long ;)
Last edited by ovyyus on Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by hansvonlieven »

Well Bill,

Things have certainly changed within the last couple of hours. Perhaps you are right after all. One thing is certain. I won't be sending any "donations"

Hans
When all is said and done, more is said than done . Groucho Marx
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re: one of the machines with the math

Post by primemignonite »

I suppose things went on for as long as they did because so many nurtured hope against hope that EQ might actually have found 'IT'.

What first comes to my unforgiving mind, however, are terms such as "outrageous", "vile", "overbearing", "abusive", "tasteless" and much, much more of the like.

Might we possibly have learned something useful from this long, on-going fiasco?

I certainly hope so, for various of the patient endured considerable anxiety over it's exercise, if I might speak for some others?

I am not so kindly disposed towards the insolent tongued EQ as is Hans von Lieven, he being much more the patient gentleman than I.

If I may be so bold as to say, I guess I would fall right into line with what Bill has said!

James
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
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