Energy from gravitation

[Gravitator]

Hi all,

I'm really new to BesslerWheel -problem and haven't think this problem as separate problem. I have some ideas how to produce energy from gravitation and they might have something to do with BesslerWheel.

My ideas can be found at http://gravitator.org

I hope this is useful for someone or give some new ideas...

br,
Gravitator

[AB Hammer]

Greetings Gravitator

And welcome to Besslerwheel.

I responded to your post at OU but I couldn't find my wheel I posted myself. But since you have signed up here, you can check out this link to see it.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2484

[Gravitator]

Hi AB Hammer,

Thank you. And sorry about this delay in my answer. I looked your image (the oil system) at the address
you gave me at BesslerWheel.com. Looks really interesting and I can see really a lot of same elements
that I have in my. What I have been thinking lately is the movement of pistons. I think that the closed
systems try to find they balance as pairs where on the other side is a piston farther from central of wheel
than the opposite with moved liquid. These together can be (I guess, remember I'm not a professional
in this are) think as equal from balance point of view.

So I think that we have to think the Bessler's sentence "Bessler said that IF we can find a way to raise a
heavy weight with a smaller weight, we have found the answer." quite seriously. I have added today my
answer to this question at my site/documents. What I'm still thinking is the timing issue. If we can
raise a heavy weight with smaller weight how should we do the timing in blocking the liquid flow in this kind
of wheel? With this I mean that I think that the pairs have as alone a dead point. I think this can be solved
in theory two ways: The kinetic energy in the wheel will move the pair over the dead point or an other pair,
which is not in balance moves the other one away from this dead point.

Please remember, that I'm not a professional in this area so there might be some trivial mistakes in my thinking.


br,
-michael

[broli]

Michael thanks for making me understand not only your wheel but AB's as well since I never bothered understanding it :p. What jim points out though doesn't make sense to me. You're not pushing the fluid one sided but you have both sides doing the job. I have 0 experience with this wheel but lets assume what he says is correct. Then can't this be solved by using a dense enough weight opposed to the fluid. In theory the slightest weight difference would work. So shall this then work?

Edit:Another quick observation I just made. Your design also makes it work the best. The weights should not be attached like that they should be dangling. If you attach it will spin back since the left one is dropped to far and it will act as a pendulum the transferred liquid will be WAAY too small to overcome this. But if the weights are dangling the wheel will be in equilibrium in every position without the liquid and this is what you want.

Below is what I mean with dangling/hanging weights. Now the wheel will be balanced in every position no matter how far the piston has gone and without the liquid and this is what you want.

I could be wrong though :p.

[Gravitator]

Hello Broli,

Little bit yes and no. Maybe attach image will describe little bit more about my thoughts of pistons, balance, timing etc.
In this picture the small weight have moved liquid from B2 to A2. I think it is obvious that the right side is heavier than left. So the Besslers sentence is in this way achieved. The timing problem is that when liquid is moving from lover position to upper the wheel will turn too early - littel weight difference is enough to make this happen. And what I think with this is that in too early stage this will cause the problem that the system will hang. So as far as I understand the best situation would be that the wheel will turn after the desired amount of liquid have been moved up.

[broli]

After some revision the idea I proposed is no good it will just balance the whole wheel just like your current one.

But the solution remains correct. That is that you need to raise and lower the pistons/weights without affecting the wheel at all. If you can do this then you can joggle the watter around and cause rotation.

[murilo]

Michael...
welcome to BW forum.
You said:
''Please remember, that I'm not a professional in this area so there might be some trivial mistakes in my thinking.''
Your phrase makes obvious the fact that all the rest of us are professionals in F-E and PMs....
Sorry, this was very funny! :)
Best regs. M.

[Gravitator]

To avoid misunderstanding what I mean with moving heavy weight up using light weight, I add this post to make my thoughts more clear. In this picture the light weight is 2*100 kg in two parts: One produce pressure and other one produce negative pressure. This light weight lifts up 10 000 liters (10 000 kg, the heavy weight) water from B to A.

br,
Gravitator

[Gravitator]

I had quite a brainstorm with my idea after visiting this site.
The main sentence that make me rethink my idea was
"IF we can find a way to raise a heavy weight with a smaller weight, we have found the answer.".

I have now update my idea at http://gravitator.org.
My "Bessler wheel" is now ticking like a clock waiting the gravitation to lift up the water and then turning 90 degrees. I wonder if Bessler's wheel was "ticking" or was it moving continuously?

[greendoor]

I recognised that sentence as being something I crudely paraphrased - so for the record, here is what Bessler actually wrote (albeit translated):

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain." - pg 295 "

My current thinking is that this might be achieved by exploiting a period of near-weightlessness during a pendulum cycle. I've yet to be convinced this can't work. Another way of looking at this is that we would be adding velocity to a moving mass that also has velocity. If we ADD velocities together, Energy increases by the SQUARE of the total velocity ...

[Stewart]

I recognised that sentence as being something I crudely paraphrased - so for the record, here is what Bessler actually wrote (albeit translated):

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain." - pg 295 "

That's not actually what Bessler says, and it's fairly obvious that the statement there is wrong as anybody could lift 1 pound with 4 ounces, or 4 pounds with 16 ounces using a simple lever - you certainly don't have to be a great craftsman! However, if you look at what he actually says:

[he] shall be called a great craftsman/artist,
who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high,
and when one pound falls a quarter,
it shoots four pounds four quarters high. &c.

...he is talking about a lighter weight falling a small distance being able to lift a greater weight a greater distance - now that's something that requires a bit more skill!

Stewart