Burt Rutans - "Water Wheel"

[Oxygon]

Burt Rutans - "Water Wheel" (link)

Anybody else attempted to extrapolate this machines method of imbalance?
Information of its design is sparse... if not non-existent.

[Jonathan]

I tried. Unfortunatly I'm not home for a few days, and the pictures I made for analysis are on the computer there. I sent them to Gordon, maybe he still has it? They weren't great anyway, there just isn't enough clarity in the picture. What I can say with reasonable certainty is that it is 12 sided and either flexible or permanently not a regular polygon, because when tracing it's outline it is apparent that its warped somehow, despite the complications of perspective, and the refractive properties of light.
I am skeptical of it though, since it was posted by Techstuff. It could be that the device is weak and really is thermodynamically powered, and he just says that it's Rutan's excuse to the physicists. It's hard to tell as I've never seen that article it was in.

[racer270]

no jonathan i deleted them after we kicked it around,i remember you hi-lighted the inner lines in blue but i did'nt save the pictures. sorry........gordy

[Oxygon]

I too think that its a questionable device...

more hype than truth... it seems.

[Jonathan]

You can say that again. I did a google search for '"November 1989" "Popular Science" Rutan' and got only three hits, all at that website.

[Jonathan]

Here's that picture, not a great help. The black lines are stuff in the background that I wanted to distinguish from the wheel. The green lines are either the edges of wedge shaped side panels or are wires doing who knows what. The dots toward the center are the bolts or whatever that connect the wheel to the axle, which is supported by the white thing behind the wheel. I suggest you save the original picture and this one, and look at them both close up, switching back and forth between them quickly, so that you can tell how I got the lines. Some are there, some I only think should be there, where it's hard to tell from the picture. It really is impossible to tell because glare and refraction could have me looking at pieces that aren't there or at multiple images of the same piece.
You can see the same structure at different points on the wheel and it appears to change size and shape. As far as I can tell, there isn't a solid piece in the whole thing.

[Oxygon]

Argh...! I have been starring at this %$#$ thing for 45 min, messing with colors, sharpening, etc. in photoshop/etc.

Now I am getting a headache looking at this thing...

It just doesnt look right...

I dont know if what you define "green" was a wire... looks more like light reflecting. There also seems to be a pipe or something coming up from below (maybe its me)... I dont have any idea what this would be for... if anything.

Also it seems to have an inner and outer structure??? A wheel within a wheel???

I have added this Edit Pic... I think I can say with some surity that this outline is present within a six sided wheel...

But I just dont know how this would have ever worked???

...

[Jonathan]

Yes, that is what it looks like to me too. 6 active sides, 6 are just spacers. There definitly does appear to be an inner and outer wheel. That combined with the seemingly awful warping has let me to believe that maybe there are 12 semi-independent regions of variable volume, one per side between the two wheels. There does seem to be water in the bottom of the device, does it use the weight of this water warp the structure of the wheel so that there is more of it on one side? Why is your picture mirrored? Also, it isn't clear which way it is supposed to turn. I'd say cw in the original, ccw in yours, because the vaguely circular disturbance looks like ripples caused by water dripping off the rising side of the wheel.
The pipe you mention, do you actually see the pipe, or do you think that the vaguely circular disturbance in the water is from a pipe sucking or blowing water into the resevoir? Now that you've mentioned this I notice something unusual, that is vaguely cylindrical, coming up literally through the structure of the wheel, maybe behind it. I'll have to look at the original again...
As to the 'wire's it just seemed like that's what it could be because bare wires can be reflective.
It's not clear to me if the structures connect to the inner or outer wheel.
I'm also flabbergasted as to why Rutan would go to the trouble of inventing such a device, esp. of such importance, and never do anything with it beside mount one in his house.

[Oxygon]

the picture is reversed... becuase I find that inversion whether structural or visually usually inspires...

I have no idea which way is spins (if it does)... I might say that it does spin CW in the original, due to the apparent water stain I think I see... from "dripping" like you mentioned...

Most of its center structure doesnt seem (to me) to serve a purpose...

I am so close to quiting on this device...

And why is the support so large? (Is it?) I do belive that is a see thru pipe behind the wheel... maybe to bring water up?... MAYBE the wheel is turning some type of pump within the support...

I still doubt this machine...

I dont know... I think its BOGUS...

too many questions, too much secrecy and too little info...

[joppa]

Questions....Questions....good ones all. Why did he choose the name 'White Knight' for the fiery steed that he would chariot to space? Only time may tell......cuz Dr. Rutan is rather 'reserved' at the moment.

[Jonathan]

You're right about the stain, I didn't really notice, the ripples caught my eye. Given that that does appear to be a clear pipe, maybe there is a water pump that brings the water up to fill those weird internal structures, and it just works like an inside-out water wheel, except electricity instead of sun powered. It could be that the support houses the device that does the pumping. Given that there appears to be only one site on the net about it, it could be that this has just been blown out of proportion and that he nor the witnesses ever claimed it was perpetual. Questions, questions...

[jim_mich]

I tried manipulating the picture all different ways. I can make the picture a little clearer but can't see much more. The only thing I can add is the wheel support axle seems off center verticaly and the wheel does not seem to be in the water.

[Jonathan]

Yes, far off center vertically, but I think it is this low in the water.

[jim_mich]

Jonathan, you have it in the water way too deep. Try this, the two red dots are about where the water line is on the front of the wheel. Maybe a littler higher, but not much. Else where would the drip fall from? Also the wheel may not be turning when the picture was taken because there is no ripples coming from the wheel sides.

[Oxygon]

I think I have found a possible design of the wheel although I still do not understand its method of perpetuation...

here are two images...

BREDIT2.jpg is a simple line drawing over the original (what I could be sure of...)

Which gave rise to the second picture... BREDIT1.jpg "a theoretical design".


Sorry about the reverse names... :p

I cant change it now...