Simple CrossBar Oscillator

[ruggerodk]

Further to the Milkovic two-stage-oscillator I came up with this construction idea:

We have two rods with weight mounted at each outer ends...
Rods are connected through the centre by a spring...
The rods and spring can slide freely pass the centre...
But only slide to a certain 'stop' so the spring-ends cannot cross the centre...

At first, the pendulum 'A' will fall and strech the spring (2) and some mechanism will fix the position of 'A' and hold the tension of the spring (keeping the spring streched) untill we want to release it at (3).

At the same time 'B' will slide inwards to the centre.

Secondly, when the pendulum 'A' reach its point of weightless (3) we release the spring.

This will both pull 'A' towards the centre and push 'B' towards its outer position.

Now the cycle can start all over again...

Any comments are wellcome...especially if you have some calculation of the spring-tension (force) at 06-o'clock position, and at the release-point (3)...

regards
ruggero ;-)

[greendoor]

I'm very excited at this design ... if I recall correctly, a witness of a bessler wheel weight (which were usually covered in a cloth), said the weight had a hole in it ...

This design seems in line with the first verse of Besslers poem ...

Greed is an evil root.
An anvil receives many blows.
A driver drives. A runner runs.
A seer sees. The buyer buys.
The rain flows. Snow falls.
The jack fires. The bow twangs;
a large herd of fat, lazy,
plump horses wanders aimlessly.
The flail wants to be with the
thresher, not with the scholar.
Children play among the pillars
with loud heavy clubs.
Acrobats and shadow-boxers
are as swift and nimble as the wind.
The cunning cat slinks quietly along
and snatches juicy mice.
The dog creeps out of his kennel
just as far as his chain will stretch.
He knows how to please by playing
with his toys and knick-knacks.
He wags his tail, creeps through the hoop,
and is rewarded with a pat on the paws
by the stiff fops who watch him.

[ruggerodk]

I'm very glad to hear that, Greendoor ;-D

In JC's book - if I may quote - Bessler says:

General description of the Wheel (Page 295-296):
"So then, a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, as its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time."

What is a "lead"? And what was the german word JB used in the manuscrpt?

I know that using a thread, lead and bolt will have to consider friction.
But maybe the whole thing; the rods, the weights and spring were spinning in and out in some way...
Perhaps the whole thing was working inside a tube - and this tube was fixed mounted through the center axle? (Maybe I should make a drawing of this?)

This would definately be in line with JB's clue, that the axle has many compartments and pierced with many holes...

If you have any idea how to improve this design or are able to make som calculation on the forces involved, I would surely appriciate your effort.

regards
ruggero ;-)

[ruggerodk]

OK

Here is a TUBE design.

The red triangles are Dogs that grab and fix the weight in outer position untill they are released at (3).

The green rectangles next to centre prevent the weight and spring from crossing the centre...these could also work as Dogs to hold the weight at the inner position untill released at (3).

I believe the CF force on the downward swing (fall) are enough to push the weight into the Dog lock mechanism at the outer position.
And that the force from the spring release - together with the opposing weight's fall - perhaps are enough to activate the Dog lock mechanism at the inner position...?

Anyway, it's a pretty simple design.

And mounting some 8 tubes through the axle could make a differens.

regards
ruggero ;-)

[jim_mich]

What is a "lead"?

The English written word lead can is pronounced as 'led' or as 'leed' and has many meanings as both a noun and a verb. Because Bessler says "pieces of lead", I'm quite sure that he was referring to the metal; symbol Pb. which is pronounced 'led'.

Lead (pronounced 'leed') can also mean the spiral thread groove on bolts and screws.

[ruggerodk]

Thank you Jim,

So - I believe you mean that the 'lead' (led) are referring to the heavy metal weights?

Or was JB playing with the word, meaning that it was a lead made of lead? Or a lead on a lead?

But I still look for the actual German word used by JB....any suggestion?

Maybe Scott or Collins knows something?

regards
ruggero ;-)

[Stewart]

What is a "lead"? And what was the german word JB used in the manuscrpt?

Here's the original text:

Von vielen sondern Stücken Bley/
Der sind nun immer zwey und zwey/

Here's my translation:

from/by many separate/special pieces [of] lead,
which are now always two and two,

The word 'Bley' has the modern spelling of 'Blei' and means 'lead' as in the metal (Pb). 'Stücken Bley' means 'pieces of lead' or 'lead pieces'. 'zwey' has the modern spelling of 'zwei' and means 'two'. 'zwei und zwei' means 'two and two' or 'two by two' (i.e. in pairs). Don't forget AP is a book of poetry and so words at the ends of the lines are chosen to rhyme with others - 'Blei' and 'zwei' are at the end of the line and rhyme with each other.

We know that in the chapter that contains this text (chapter 43 of AP) Bessler is definately talking about the internal workings of his wheels - however be careful with the passage of metaphors in chapter 46 ("Greed is an evil root" etc.) as we do not know whether that text directly relates to the workings of his wheels. I think it's counter productive to try and relate parts of your wheel to that text. In my opinion you are better off doing your own experiments and following your own intuition. I think the general concept you are talking about here has merit and I have experimented along these lines in using overbalancing weights and CF to compress springs and then use the stored energy in the springs to shift the overbalancing weights again later. I remember Stefan Hartmann posted and talked about an animation showing a weight oscillating back and forth across the centre of a wheel using springs. It was a rather chaotic motion, but interesting nonetheless. Here's a link to Stefan's post on the old forum:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/messages/1370.html

I've tried to find the video on the link he provides, but couldn't find it. Perhaps if he reads this he'll point us in the right direction.

Stewart

[AB Hammer]

Hay Stewart, ruggero, and all

I just posted another video on youtube that has something similar to what you are talking about. If you look closely you will see springs on each side of the axle. This was allowing a neutralizing effect of the slide weights but all and all the Keel effect killed it.

Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz7cZ6Z7e_A

[DrWhat]

Ruggero,

I was passionate about this and very similar ideas a while back. See my one of my photos under ALBUMS and DrWhat.

My hope is that you may improve on the mechanism but don't wear yourself out on it. It wore me out!

Damian

[ruggerodk]

Dear Stewart,

Thanks for providing the link to Stefan's post on the old forum, and I appreciate your effort to find the video.

I have tried to look at the yahoo-group and Stefan's website but with no luck.

His post on Besslerwheel's forum is very interesting and gives good arguments of conservation of energy into the spring...for later use i.e. change positions of weights...

Some detail of his description cought my attention: He talks about "It is a mechanical simulation of a weight fixed with a spring
and the weight goes over the center of the wheel.
The wheel begins to turn and the spring pulls the weight back."

This sounds a little bit different from my concept, where the weights dont cross the center....maybe I misunderstand his meaning and that is why I am keen to see his video.

Hopefully he read this..;-)

And thank you Hammer, for a fine handwork and video. I'm not sure though that we are using the same prime mover principle. And - sorry to say - the quality of Utube videos doesn't give me a chance to see the spring or their functionality.

DrWhat:
Look out for passions - it's the only way to create experiences and enrichment of life ;-D
I will look at your album and get back to you...thanks

regards
ruggero ;-)

[ruggerodk]

Dear DrWhat

Now I have looked at your album.

But it doesn't seem to have any picture related to oscillating spring-connected-rods?

Could you please point out the specific item in your album?

best regards
ruggero ;-)

[greendoor]

It was a rather chaotic motion, but interesting nonetheless.

From Bessler's poem, in certain lines I get the distinct impression he is describing chaotic movement that is exploited by a clever mechanism ...

[DrWhat]

Hi Ruggero,

it is the shiny 8 radial chambered device.

I shouldn't have meant I was doing exactly what you were doing, just that some characteristics of your design were used (sliding weights in chambers).

Damian

[ruggerodk]

I fully agree with you, Greendoor.
JB mention something like "speedy flight", and both "turning in all directions" (i.e. x, y and z axles).

DrWhat,
I would be very interested in exploring any drawings or description of your sliding tubes that you can provide...(?)

Does anyone knows where to find calculations on force, dimensions, tension and movements of springs with weight attachment???

regards
ruggero ;-)

[hansvonlieven]

G'day all,

I wonder if those of you who have WM2D would have a look at the following simulation.

The simulation shows 2 systems for comparison 1, a pendulum and 2, another pendulum suspended from 10kg beam which is free to move horizontally on rollers. The movement of the beam is restricted with springs.

The curious thing about it is, even though both pendula start with the same amount of potential energy and are identical in every respect, that the pendulum attached to the beam keeps moving long after the simple pendulum stops. There is a certain amount of air resistance programmed into the simulation to give a more realistic picture.

If the simulation is correct that would mean that there is more energy available in the beam type suspension than in the simple pendulum, which should be impossible.

Have a look and tell me what you think, this has me baffled.

Hans von Lieven