Do you think you will succeed in building the wheel if you are not religious?

[rocky]

Ever have a brush with death? Ever been in a life or death fight? Ever hold anyone mortally wounded and tell them to close their eyes and go to sleep and that they would wake up in a better place? Know any combat veterans? I mention this because I should not be here. All my friends have their names on the black wall in Washington, DC on the Vietnam Veterans War Memorial. Everyone killed has their names on the wall. God spared me. I don’t know why. Perhaps it was to build the wheel.

I normally post in the Community Buzz where you have to be a logged in member to read the posts. But from a past discussion I thought I would post a topic here. It really is not off topic because it is about Bessler but religion is frowned upon by most so I put it here. Besides, if I touch just one person’s heart who reads this, then it was worthwhile.

My country drafts young men age 18 to 35 into the armed forces. I received my draft notice on Christmas eve. It said “Greetings. Your country needs you.� I did not know that you can be drafted into any branch of the armed forces. After my physical exam at the induction station about 300 of us were lined up around the wall in a large room. A sergeant barked at us “Remember your number!� then walked around pointing to each of us saying: “Odd, Even, Odd, Even ...� When he finished labeling all of us, he told all the odd ones to go to the next room. After he shut the door we heard screams from their room. Another sergeant told us to relax. We were the lucky ones. We were going to be in the Army. The others were going in the Marine Corp.

We flew to Fort Bliss, Texas for Basic Training for eight weeks. Because I scored high on the entrance exams and I had a 2 year Associate Degree from my junior college I was offered OCS (Officer Candidate School) where I would be a helicopter pilot warrant officer. But the catch was I had to enlist and be in years longer than the 2 year active duty draft. I thought about it for a few days but finally declined. After Basic I was sent to Advance Individual Training at Fort Ord, California. It was called Vietnam Jungle combat training. It included medical training, guerilla warfare, various forms of fighting including judo, karate and some very ingenious forms of dirty types of street fighting and ways to very quickly incapacitate or kill people.

The training was difficult, but very interesting. We got to practice with many different weapons including M-16s, M-14s, M-60 machineguns and fifty caliber machineguns, along with M-79 grenade launchers, M-72 Law antitank rockets, Claymore mines, hand grenades, White Phosphorus grenades, and C-4 explosives. We got our first helicopter rides there and learned to jump out of them while they were a short distance off the ground.

After a 30 day leave I reported to Fort Lewis Washington for air transportation to Camrhan Bay Viet-Nam. We flew to Anchorage, Alaska on a DC-8 jet with 219 G.I.s on board. After refueling we flew to Yakota, Japan. After an hour layover we left for Camrhan Bay and arrived about 10 AM. When they opened the airplanes door it felt like someone opened an oven as the temperature was above 110 degrees and the humidity was 100%.

After a couple of days at Camrhan, I flew in a C-130 to Chu Lai and then by deuce and a half to a fire base l where I joined a light infantry Brigade. Within a couple of hours we were riding M-113 armored personnel carriers out into the bush. Sometimes we went very far away to places like Laos and close to Da Nang. We were out in the field about 3 months at a time and then would spend a few days at Chu Lai for rest and relaxation. After that it was back out in the boonies again. We were in rice paddies part of the time but mostly in the jungle portion of the lower mountains.

Because I was drafted while in college I was 21 and more mature then most of the rest of my squad who where 18 and their first time away from home. I converted a lot of them to become Christians. In a fire fight an atheist in my squad loudly cursed God then raised his head to shoot and got a bullet between the eyes. There were a lot of converts after that.

My name should be on the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial. My entire squad has their names on there. They were killed while I was in a coma in the field hospital. My guardian angel saved my life that day. I was sitting on a log between two friends resting after a long march. I heard a voice in my head whisper to quickly sit down. Without thinking I slid off the log to sit on the ground with my back against the log. A CH-47 Chinook helicopter about to land was shot down and crashed 100 feet away in the trees. It exploded and the rotor blades went everywhere. I saw a dark object coming but it was too fast to react.

I woke up in the field hospital on a cot. All the men around me were missing limbs or parts of their face. I just knew something bad happened to me. I held up my hands and rejoiced I still had them, then looked at my legs and wiggled my toes, then felt my face and all was there but then felt the bandages on the back of my head. I was told the rotor blade decapitated the friends I was sitting between and it hit me a glancing blow lifting my scalp and giving me a concussion. I needed 40 switches and have a small dent in the back of my skull. Southeast Asia has beautiful scenery but I will never go back there again.

Going back to college I read a book called “Stranger Than Science.� There was a chapter about Bessler’s Wonderful Wheel. I had a year of physics in high school and another year of physics in college. I thought that it was just a clever design that did not violate any laws of physics. And .... the same voice that told me to get down off that log, told me to “Build The Machine.� It is why I told you my war story. It is why I believe God spared my life. Bessler was very religious and in his books constantly praised God for helping him discover the secret of the machine. I believe you will never rediscover this secret unless you likewise believe in Him. I have this on my wall in my den workroom to inspire me every day:
----
BUILD THE MACHINE

“Organ-making prepared me for the Primum Mobile, and accompanied me on the true path towards it. God chose this noble channel to send forth my work into the vale of tears that is our world, and bring solace to those who labour. Every land shall marvel when it learns of my invention.� - Apologia Poetica 1716 (John Collins translation)

“In my now frequent prayers I more or less told Him what I wanted from Him! But, since my purpose was so plainly selfish, all of this came to naught. But in the mud of my life I found repentance and sought to find the pearls again. With God's help I began to realize where I had gone wrong in the world. He demanded penance, and I accepted it. I wrote down my sins, and changed from being a credulous fool. For the second time in my life I discarded my childish ways. My wild antics ceased. I followed various vows that I had made, yet I felt depressed much of the time. I prayed in this condition to God, to give me guidance regarding the Perpetuum Mobile, which I was beginning to feel enthusiastic about once more.� - AP (John Collins translation)

“Since I had realized that organ-craft would be of use to me in the quest for my Mobile, I set to work with a will. I made many calculations and constructed many models. Parts from all over the area were collected for making machines. When all the parts were ready, I would fit them together with painstaking care, and when things had reached the point where the wheel should have revolved freely...well, it refused to do so. You can imagine how frustrated I became! I would complain to no-one, but would take solace in thinking about other matters. But no true revolution manifested itself, whatever I did! What's more, funds were getting low, because all the bits and pieces cost no small sum! Often I had to put up with bad food so that the Mobile could be served up the feast it demanded. No one else could possibly have ventured so much as I did in the pursuit of the Perpetuum Mobile. I worked away endlessly, and night and day my head was filled with conjectures. I relished no food; the project was making my head spin. But I always came back again and undertook new experiments. I was ‘perpetually’ devising new ideas in secret, and these I would boldly incorporate into yet another new wheel. This one just had to work... How nicely it stayed put! I found the way to make 100 odd machines. How much I regretted the time and, especially, the money I'd put into it all!

It would have been difficult, in the face of all this, for anyone to pluck up the courage to make new efforts. The net result of it all was sure to be the same as last time. But I doubt if anyone, in any country, has ever had the patience and diligence I showed in my obsessive fancy. While other people were being carefree, I'd be tearing my heart out. I'd discover something wonderful, on which I'd staked everything, only to be heard loudly lamenting, a few days later, at the thought that the years of work had been fruitlessly expended. I'd be overcome by great sorrow, would go to my bedroom full of anguish and weep bitterly, till finally God took pity on me, showed me his love, and blessed with good fortune my ensuing labours. I had a rare dream, which gave me strength, happiness, air and space. For weeks I forgot the outside world and concentrated on my innermost self. Soon I was free of cares and greatly comforted by a new enlightenment. God had sent Joy after sorrow. I was granted the right understanding to achieve the true Mobile. For I put together the very first device which could spontaneously revolve a little. I saw that I had finally made the right choice, and why the earlier ones had been wrong. My heart leapt for joy at the sight of this genuine Mobile. If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster. Just as a preacher at the end of his sermon ponders on a mystery too deep for human understanding, he knows that the mystery is well known to God. It was God who made it possible for me, and so it is God alone whom I must praise.� - AP (John Collins translation)

“What exactly is a Perpetuum Mobile? Wagner says it should keep on revolving and not come to a standstill as long as the materials it’s made of shall last. If it should be able to do this then it must indeed be the true device which many really ingenious minds, using their great talents, have sought, and yet have never found. Yes, just this very wonder-device, which no one has ever succeeded in finding despite the passage of many thousands of years, Orffyreus has, with God’s help, discovered it.� - AP (John Collins translation)

“God decreed that it should be the most unlikely person such as I, who would crack open the hardest nut of all, which no scholar had ever been able to do. Now there's a secret here which I'll freely disclose - if Wagner, the great scholar, had come up with the Mobile, God wouldn't have been given any credit, as it would all have been put down to - scholarship. But God deigned instead to turn to a poor peasant who amounts to nothing! And yet from nothing, God has created something! Is not honour due alone to the Almighty Creator?� - AP (John Collins translation)

“But it is a fact that I, poor unworthy man that I am, have been especially chosen by the Lord God, He Who alone is wise, and Whose workings are hidden from us, to be a tool in the discovery of this secret, so long desired and so long sought after. And in truth it now seems to me that the time is long overdue, now that I have achieved my goal, once known only to God, that I and the world should see this principle, in itself so simple, and yet at the same time so deeply hidden, of everlasting motion, described in total detail and in mathematical simplicity, in praise of God’s boundless wisdom, and for the benefit of the entire world.�
- Das Triumphirende 1719 (John Collins translation)

“Perhaps God will allow you to invent it, and fathom the mystery of true motive power.� - AP (John Collins translation)
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I have a lot of engineer friends who are not religious. They would never wear a cross on a necklace like Catholic and Protestant Christians do. I tell them that God has a sense of humor because even though they do not believe in Him, God believes in them and has imprinted the symbol of the Christian cross in every cell of their body with the Cell Adhesion Molecule Laminin. Bessler’s Maschinen Tractate book drawings 12 and 13 overlaid look like Laminin. Bessler quoted scripture often. These two Bible passages talk about Laminin:

“He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.� - Colossians 1:17
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you.� - 1st Corinthians 6:19

Just like rebar holds concrete together, Laminin holds you together.

See the attached photo of a poster about the largest and smallest imprints of God.
Hope this inspires you to build the machine and make the world a better place.
Rocky <><

[Michael]

Well rocky, first I respect your beliefs and your entitled to them. I really do. But don't you think that in order to be fair, and honest, and unbiased all material must be looked at to come to a right conclusion? I know your thread is posing a question, but you've also supplied a number of quotes to put weight ( pun intended ) towards your argument. There are other quotes as well though. Such as Bessler saying the reason no one else has gotten it is because perpetual motion has received such a bad rap that no serious academic looks at it anymore, some times the seekers are referred to as being as crazy as march hares. That only tinkerers fiddle around trying to find the answer. These tinkeres being very poorly versed in mathematics. Especially abstract and pure math. That even those young scholars, who think they know it all, miss the secret point because they aren't as educated as Bessler; they didn't do a history check to see what possible information was left behind by others, and he even states that learning Latin was of a importance.

About the images. I've seen that before, it's been on the net for a while. The thing to realize though is the cross ( in all it's many varied forms ) has been used for one reason or another in quite a few civilizations much older that Christianity, basically because it is an exact piece of geometry. There is geometry everywhere in nature. We could take a walk in the woods and I could, at every turn, point out a strong piece of geometry. If you look at the laminin you might also notice it very much resembles the staff of life; the caduceus.

There is something that gets me though about modern day Christianity. It is sometimes put forth by certain Christian groups as the cross having some kind of special mystery power. The mystery in Christianity really isn't about the cross, the cross is a tool, and in this case a tool of death. The "mystery", is about jesus defeating the power of the cross, or in this case the power of death ( BTW the cross was also used in a few cultures as a death tool, and many people were crucified ). Another place you'll find the cross where it that has links to Christianity is the Moses nailing the serpent to the cross. An allegory to be unraveled.
Another BTW, to fix something to a static state, is also a form of death. The cross does this quite nicely as a mathematical tool.

If your religion helps you though, and if you do find the answer because of it then all the more power to you.

[erick]

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~Ghandi~

I think the more interesting question would be: if God/Christ did indeed exist why would he allow Christians to invent technology capable of creating utter devastation, chaos and the destruction of our entire planet? It sure seems like God is doing more to help mankind destroy itself than help itself with something like a free energy machine...

[Oystein]

Answer is YES !

(VERY short/simple version of my theory: )

We start with a person that is raised by Muslim parents/belief, and a person born without hearing and vision (eyes). If any of the religions are true, there is some small percentage for the Muslim to achieve eternal life, because there is only such a small chance for this one religion to be the correct one. And 50% chance for the person without hearing and vision, as he has not been able to evaluate any religion. And then there are all the scenarios in between..

God could per definition not be that cruel, and play such a game/roulette with (in this case) innocent people!

Is the dog bringing/fetching you the newspaper in the morning, a kind dog? or a selfish dog waiting for his reward?

Why should we need rewards, like eternal life to be good persons, if we at the same time should not be selfish, especially as selfishness is what will bring you to hell!?

So, there are one of three alternatives :
1. God only do final judgement by examining your thoughts and judgement/caracter, relative to your input over those years your mind works quite well. No matter religion/faith.
2. God does not exist
3. God exist, but religion is fake.

Summary : Religion is fake(or not needed) and god may exist.
Yes you may build a "Besslerwheel" even if not religious, but don`t do it for selfish reasons, and do to others what you want others to do to you :)

Best
Oystein

[justsomeone]

May God bless you Rocky!!! Yes, I believe God will give the answer to

someone ( or has ). Will it be a true man of God or a pathetic backslider

like me? Will it be someone extremely intelligent or someone with

average intelligence? Will the lucky person give credit where credit is

due?

[Jim Williams]

Rocky

I've had three brushes with death, all of them different than yours. In my last one I ended up in a coma with a fractured scull, broken ribs, a collapsed lung and part of my liver kicked off. Mine was very different than yours because I don't remember anything about it at all, including the attack itself. Some good samaritan, whom I'll never know, got me to the hospital and saved my life. I was in the coma for two weeks.

My experience was also different in that I already believed that something like a gravity motor was possible and then I was attacked, not the other way around. If I were religious I'd believe Satan punished me for believing in free energy.

But I'm not religious. The closest I get is in this story I made up to deal with my assault. The story goes: I died and went to heaven, but St. Peter took one look at me and said, "You go to hell". So I went to hell, but Satan took another look at me and said, ''You ain't getting in here, boy. You're going back to Earth. Why do you think they call me Satan?". So here I am. Then again maybe I came back to invent that free energy device.

Thanks for your story. I don't envy your experience. But then again I don't envy mine either.

Jim W.

[Michael]

Or St. Peter said, you go to hell, and you woke up back here.

Just a joke.

[AB Hammer]

It is funny how many of us had brushes with death who are all working on the wheel here. Mine happened in 1996 a head on with a drunk at 110+ mph collision. Then again 2 years later a roof caved in and I received a severe concussion. I wasn't allowed to move for a month, for I couldn't take the vibrations. It just wasn't my time I guess.

[Jim Williams]

Michael

That was the joke. Satan wouldn't let me into hell. Thought it was too good for me. So he sent me back to Earth.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Jim W.

[murilo]

Hi, you guys!
Just my 1/2¢.

To really get an invention, a NEW original one, not any adaption, discover or evolution, or fruit of suckering, one will need inspiration, aspiration, perspicacy, mind strengh and a special type of peace - there are others!

All this you may get without a god of any type, gender or collor, but you'll never reach to all this without a soul, it's company, trusting and believing.

IF you accept your soul, or any kind of resident living spirit that is you - very hard to NOT feel it - you'll be inside God, your own God.
Oh, yes... you don't need to have a religion to have a God!
Very simple and clear deal.
Murilo

[Jim Williams]

Or St. Peter sentenced me to Bessler's Wheel, not Earth. OK, I get it. But then God intervened, singled me out and said that I wouldn't be able to invent a wheel either, while everyone else here had a chance. He made sure I was in hell.

murilo has really got it.

[John Collins]

Yes Rocky - in answer to the title of this thread. I think I have a chance of succeeding in building the wheel.

As you know,I'm not religious - I think I described myself as a passive atheist but with a agnostic tendencies. I can't help the way I am, you either believe in God or you don't - or you have no way of knowing if he exists. In some ways I envy those like yourself who believe with utter certainty, but I don't know on what grounds - and please don't waste bandwidth trying to explain.

Given that state of affairs concerning myself and my history of searching for a solution to Bessler's wheel, obviousy I think I stand as good a chance as anyone else here, of finding that answer.

JC

[rlortie]

If you are a tinkerer of hands on research in the pursuit of Bessler's secret and you find it;

The agnostic will say it was by accident or innovation. The religious will say it was from the hand of God as Bessler claimed.

IMO either way the chances of success remain the same and it is up to the finder to say whether God hand a hand in it.

Ralph

[justsomeone]

I totally disagree Ralph. If God chooses to give someone the answer

then it isn't even a fair contest! The question is, will he or has he?

[justsomeone]

J.C. Quote " please don't waste bandwidth trying to explain "

I'm speechless!