A very strange gravitic motor

[path_finder]

A very strange gravitic motor: the Mann Gravity Mover by Gurbakhsh Singh Mann (unfortunately died on July 17, 2008)
The Gurbakhsh Singh Mann Web site:
http://gurbakhshsinghmannglobalenergy.com/biz/index.htm
(Some drawings and pictures at the end of the page)

This machine is also a horizontal machine

see also http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory: ... vity_Mover

Can anybody explain to me how it works?

[rlortie]

I am aware of this machine and have attempted to collaborate with a fellow member Preston Stroud who built a facsimile of it. He is also responsible for the http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory: ... vity_Mover link. I have never drawn a conclusion of the theory or how it is supposed to work. Clicking on link 1.2 'How it works' gets you absolutely nothing.

My explanation is that it reminds me of attempting to push a loaded wheelbarrow without moving your hands or feet!

There is however Preston with whom I discussed this with, he is a member here. I leave it to his discretion as to responding although I believe Peswiki pretty well covers it.

Ralph

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

There are several claims and it seems like never a video to show it working. All though I due believe a horizontal device is possible. Most here believe it is less likely. I even have on designed but it will take a bit of time before I finish it.

[agor95]

@ Greendoor

I could use your help on this one. As I remember this is acting as a gyroscope.

I remember a presentation were a person held a heavy gyroscope up when it was spinning on the end of the rod.

It was like the wheel on a rod shown in the picture.

If you were to hold the rod and the wheel was spinning clockwise to you, a strange thing happens. The rod-gyroscope wants to move around you clockwise as seen from above.

If you move faster than its natural movement around you then the rod increase in hight.

If you place weights on the rod near the gyroscope then the rod-gyroscope moves faster.

More weight and the gyroscope in principle can get its spin from rolling along the ground.

[Jim Williams]

Like all perpetual motion machines I've ever seen it runs on a belief of a better world.

[path_finder]

Dear Agor95,
Are you referring to the The Royal Institutions 1974-75 Christmas Lecture given by Eric Laithwaite ?
see:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOIWXqH9Io

[agor95]

@ path_finder

Thats the one, thanks for the link.

Regards

[DrWhat]

Can we make one side of the Bessler wheel have fast rotating weights, and the other side still weights somehow. Using the gyroscopic effect the faster spinning side should weigh less.

Of course we need to elicit a fast rotation and therein lies the problem.

[pstroud]

path_finder,

I have spent over 9 months of my life focusing on the Mann Gravity Mover. I have built many many many replication builds. I have had parts fabricated at a local metal shop and paid a company in India to obtain copies of the original patent applications. I started the page on PES wiki but I have not had time to finished it. I need to get back to documenting that so it does not get lost in history. That's why I created the page on Doc's Buzzsaw gravity wheel, which I tested for 3 years.

On the Mann Gravity Mover (MGM), I can saw that there is reasonable evidence that it really works. The patents lack any specific details / drawings / schematics / dimensions. However, I did learn from the patents more info for the puzzle.

I have come to the conclusion that there is an upper shaft with bearing on/in a tube and a lower shaft with bearing on/in another tube below (not shown in drawings but in patent). I belive these two bearings may possibly work together to shift the balance of the system. In the "picture" (not drawing), you see the main arm with wheel having a rod extended about 1/3 lengh of main shaft. This rod goes out in front and has a weight on it.

IMPO - this is how I envision it working based on 9 months of research / testing:
I believe the weight falling and in doing so, one bearing (upper or lower) will start to twist around the tube and that lifts the wheel up off the track. I then believe the second bearing on the opposite shaft on/in the other tube kicks in as the bearing pushes on it. Evidence indicates these two upper / lower tubes are of different size. As the second bearing takes traction on its tube and the wheel is rising and the weight is falling, there is an imbalance that takes place between the upper / lower bearings in two differnet sized tubes. This causes a collapse where the rising wheel falls back down onto the track, it has moved forward a little and the first bearing has moved forward in the tube. It now starts all over again.

In summary, I envision a pulsing / pumping action of bearing tube twist, weight fall, wheel rise, opposing bearing takes traction, imbalance occurs and collapse ----- start all over again.

This invention "REQUIRES" using all metal parts and precision that I was unable to achieve using my wood working background. I started working with metal tubing but my base / top mount was still wood and caused minor movement that was unacceptable.

I belive very strongly in this invention but I do not have the skills / equipment required to replicate it. 9 months of test building could not overcome this.

I have a LOT of info I collected in that 9 month period that I can share with the group if I can get agreement with some companions.

Preston Stroud

[path_finder]

Dear Preston Stroud,
Many thanks for your explanation (and for the BuzzSaw also)


Dear DrWhat,
Very interesting idea.
The solution should not be too much complex, like shown in the drawing below.
see also:
Helical Elliptical Do-Nothing Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVaXs08g1Vc
Incredible wood machine - Zahnradmaschine rein aus Holz: see on the left side the elliptical gears in motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5wJCzksT9k

[pstroud]

I like the videos on elliptical gears. I do not see that playing a part in the Mann Gravity Mover. However, I have always believed that they could play a role in Doc's buzzsaw. If the outer yellow wheel were to lift a weight in every 3rd gullet or so, the elliptical gear might be used to get the weight past the 9 oclock maximum leverage point.

Preston

[DrWhat]

Nice one p-f. I don't want to waste your time but could you do a simple animation of the above picture to help my thoughts along. If not that's fine :)

I'm thinking more about this speed thing.

[path_finder]

Dear DrWhat,

The idea is to use two ellipses rolling sticked together but in quadrature.
The attempted effect is a variable rotation on each individual axis, the speed been maximum for the shortest radius and minimum for the longest radius.

The introduction of any intermediate circle is difficult because the perimeter of the ellipse is difficult to calculate (it needs some elliptical integrals) and therefore the circumference of the intermediate circle is not easy to determine.
For the same reason the use of some gear for this circle is not possible (the number of teeth is not easily calculable).
There is only one case where some teeth can be used, two ellipses with the same number of teeth with the restriction that number must be a multiple of four if we want to be synchronized every 90 grades.

see the first six seconds of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2vRkXoTWqc

and this exceptional web site on the same subject:
http://www.gearshub.com/non-circular-gears.html

If it's true that a wheel in fast rotation is less heavy than the same with a lower rotational speed, it should be a very good opportunity...

[DrWhat]

p_f, can we perhaps use 4 pendulums to somehow vary the rate of rotation of multiple flywheels.

So 4 pendulums distributed evenly around a wheel, each geared to a flywheel in close proximity. Or something like that.

[path_finder]

Dear DrWhat,
The difficulty is in the rotation of the main wheel.
How can you change the period of each pendulum twice by any turn?
IMO the ellipses are the best solution, but perhaps not as rolling gears, but using some rods (remember any ellipse can be obtained with two rods of inequal length contrarotating at the same speed).
I will still continue to think about this idea.