Bessler Lied?

[LennyD]

I wanted to take a moment to put my ideas on before the board...

Bessler Lied Or stretched the truth A LOT. ....about everything.

When s'Gravesande saw the inside of the wheel he was surprised at its simplicity.

Bessler then said that this was why he went to such great lengths to conceal how it was constructed.

I'm not in law enforcement, but this revelation makes ALL of Johann's previous clues suspect.

The clues that matter are those from the witnesses and from s'Gravesande.

Regarding the "weight" that was given for examination...

It was a weight because it had weight and mass. But remember his wheel was built from wood. Therefore, my theory is that what was handed over was a perimeter weight (1 of 8) but it was primarily a BEATER BAR for hammer blows which also helped maintain rotation via the fly wheel effect.

Have I figured it out?

No. :-(

[ovyyus]

s'Gravesande never saw inside Bessler's wheel.

A lie can not drive the witnessed and recorded demonstrations.

[greendoor]

If you understood the workings of a religious mind, and the politics of the day, I don't think you would consider that Bessler outright lied. However, I believe he was extremely economical with the truth. And probably used a generous amount of misdirection. And why not? He didn't have any benefits of copyright/trademark/patents etc. He had some enemies who would glady steal his idea.

I also think that words have suffered in translation - and possibly there is much misunderstanding over the full implication of some of Bessler's statements. In a similar way to how people misunderstand the Christian Bible. How can God give a commandment "Thou shalt not kill", and then proceed to command His people to kill off specific people groups, and reward or punish them if they did or did not kill them all ... obviously there is something we don't understand about the meaning of some words ...

Not meaning to derail this thread - please don't respond to that subject - my point is that translation is a very complex issue indeed ...

Some of us have our pet theories about how it worked ... some deny that gravity powered it; some think that centrifugal force powered it; some say centripetal ... some don't have any clue at all but box on hoping to trick the universe somehow ...

I'm convinced that gravity powered it. I believe that the force of gravity is exerted on every object on earth - but normally that force is counteracted by the 'normal' force. That's a fancy way of saying that every object that has weight pushes down onto the earth, and the earth gets a bit stressed and pushes back. We know that Force can cause Acceleration, which requires Motion. But when the object hits the earth again, Motion stops and Stress begins again. In my opinion, the Force of Gravity is alway existing from every object, and the consequences of Force are either Motion or Stress...

We have no problem acknowledging that an object can sit on the earth causing Stress indefinately.
Why should we have a problem considering that an object could (with a clever design) cause Motion idefinately?? IMO, perpetual motion powered by gravity should be considered very possible. Because F=MA which means A = F/M.

We don't have a problem acknowledging that every object in the universe is in constant motion - stars, planets, moons, galaxies ... down to molecules, atoms, electrons ... etc

The fact that orbits are never circular seems very significant to me. That means there is constant acceleration and deceleration. I am convinced this is a key factor in using gravity to create PM.

Denying the possibility of perpetual motion is a very limited earth-bound human perspective, when everything around us is in perpetual motion. I hope somebody can bust this myth for good someday soon.

My theory is that Bessler used small weights to overbalance a heavy balanced system (which was possible the whole wheel itself, but may have been an internal mechanism using balanced weights). If you use a small weight to accelerate a heavier balanced system, you slow the velocity down but you end up with a heavy mass with momentum. If you run the maths, you can see that you can accumulate far more Momentum than the small mass freefalling by itself can accumulate.

The challenge is to use that momentum to return the small mass, and deliver the surplus. This requires decelerating the heavier mass system and transfering the available momentum back to the small mass. We can only guess how Bessler may have done this ... I have not doubt that Impact was a factor ... but since planets and atoms don't seem to use impact, i'm open to the possibility of Impulse being applied by means of an elastic Jerk ...

Either way - I believe Stress is alternately applied and then released ...

My 2C again FWIW.

[justsomeone]

Did Bessler not say something like if the wheel was not like he says ( when the curtain is pulled back ) the purchaser can have their money back and they can chop off his head? ( NOT exact quote )

I would say he was truthful and choose his words wisely.

[Wubbly]

Lied? I leave open the possibility that he was the David Copperfield of his generation. A very, very clever person who fooled everyone ... including himself.

Several hundered years, and several billion people later, and the earth has yet to produce a human who can reproduce Bessler's magic.

What did Bessler find that everyone else missed? We still dont' know. At least I don't.

[AB Hammer]

Wubbly

I may know. But only the build will tell. Or maybe I am Bessler reincarnated. LOL :))

[Wubbly]

AB Hammer, If you got it figured out, then you're one in a billion.
Best of luck to ya.

[Grimer]

Lied? I leave open the possibility that he was the David Copperfield of his generation. A very, very clever person who fooled everyone ... including himself. ...

At the risk of emulating Sir Bernard Woolley I feel I should point out that if he fooled himself he wouldn't be very clever. He would be extremely stupid.

I'm sure David Copperfield doesn't fool himself.