Fraud Forum?

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Should we create a new forum for reporting and discussing Bessler / PM fraud?

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scott
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Fraud Forum?

Post by scott »

I have heard disturbing reports that a member of this board was recently defrauded by another member. I don't like the idea that the board might be used in this way. Perhaps it is time to rekindle the idea of adding a "fraud forum" here on besslerwheel.com? This could be a place where people can warn others about con artists and hucksters that they have encountered. The visible presence of such a forum might also help deter fraudulent activities here on the board...

So, I will put the following question up for a vote:
Should we create a new forum for reporting and discussing Bessler / PM fraud?
Last edited by scott on Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Oxygon
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re: Fraud Forum

Post by Oxygon »

I believe your intentions are good, but IMO I don't think the creation of an altogether new forum is required to warn each other of "questionable forces" out there...
"A man with a new idea is a crank until he succeeds."~ M. Twain.
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re: Fraud Forum

Post by jim_mich »

I will need to think about this a little bit before I vote. At first thought it sounds good. But it could also digress into a mud slinging free for all. I've already seen more mud slinging than I care for. My tolerance for mud is quit low. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I am aware of what Scott speaks about. Sometime individuals act or do things strangely, not the way most of use would act or conduct ourselves. But are these individual trying to defraud? Maybe or maybe not. Should others be warned about these individual? Most likely that would be a good idea. But if a fraud forum is started, let's not hack individuals to pieces indiscriminately. Keep it civil and polite. Remember innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of any doubt.

Just my thoughts. I'm undecided.

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Re: re: Fraud Forum

Post by MrTim »

jim_mich wrote: Remember innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of any doubt.
That means they are still guilty....!!!

The proper statement is:

"Innocent unless proven guilty"

That was something the judge clarified during jury duty.... (And I've been correcting people ever since! ;)
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Jonathan
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re: Fraud Forum

Post by Jonathan »

He's right, "until" implies that it will happen, it just hasn't yet. LOL...all the crime shows on TV say "until" too!
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
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re: Fraud Forum

Post by jim_mich »

"until proven guilty" is the more commonly used phrase, which I was just repeating. Google search returns 87,900 as I quoted, and 7,570 as you two quote.

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re: Fraud Forum

Post by MrTim »

That's only because none of the script writers have ever been to jury duty (or paid attention if they were there.) Me, I've been called 8 times in 20 years....

'Fraud Forum' sounds like a nice idea, but I think it would be better served by alerting people to the obvious 'F-E' scams out there on the net. Then, of course, you risk the wrath of those people complaining that you are 'taking away' their business....
If there is just a problem with particular individuals, a posting (after confirmation of the incident) would suffice just as well. And there are always Admin actions that could be taken behind the scenes too....

As for me, I'd never ask any of you for money. Likewise, I have none to spare....

[edit]
"until proven guilty" is the more commonly used phrase
(They need correcting too!)
Under the Napoleonic law system (which is actually quite widespread), it's up to you to prove your innocence, not for the courts to prove your guilt.
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by ovyyus »

IMO, we should expose fraud.

Sometimes it's not possible to conclusively prove fraud - but sharing our experiences with others can be useful and sometimes save someone a lot of time and/or money.
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by etjoe »

I think "fraud" is a harsh word.
Maybe "friend"/"foe" would be better. In either case, we will have to inform these sites when one of us has a working wheel...yes?

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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by coylo »

I'm very well aware of the association of fraud has with the history perpetual motion and free energy.

http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html

But I think all this talk of fraud has gone OTT. Why dosen't someone just come out say who this mystery fraudster is, then we wouldn't have to keep bringing it up all the time (I think Michael has mentioned it a few times in his posts), and end it once and for all. I assume that you don't have enough evidence to shame him. I have never experienced any type of fraud on this forum, or maybe I was to dumb not to realize that I was getting shafted.

To sum up, I don't think this whole fraud thing is necessary, but I seem to be the only one against it and the majority rules.

Good Luck.
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by racer270 »

if you got the (GOODS) on someone, spill it!! if you dont drop it....this is bessler's wheel, not COPS bad boys, bad boys, what you going to do, what you going to do if (Scott) bands you........



kick them to the cerb!!
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Michael
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by Michael »

I think there should be a section. You live in fairy land if you think everyone out on the net is goody goody two shoes. I think we can accurately weed out trolls who would use this forum just to malign someone, as opposed to someone posting an incident where they feel a fraud is being perpretrated. An accurate posting along with some proof-emails, etc. would go far in lending credible evidence. I think it would also lend credibility to this board. There are two many overall trolls who see the types of people who come to these types of boards as "SUCKERS". As well there are innocent people out there who might not know any different and be taken in. Just because there are a few well known posters on this board doen't mean everyone who comes here posts. Why would anyone oppose it, unless they have something to hide from?

Sincerely,

Michael

Coylo, I was asked by the person who was frauded to wait until he posts a letter of his encounter.
meChANical Man.
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by coylo »

I should clarify that I would be only against it because paranoia runs rife on this forum, and I think that such an idea would only aggravate it.

I have nothing to hide except for my dodgy knee's, which is why you'll never find me in a pair of shorts.
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re: Fraud Forum?

Post by murilo »

People may be in deep mistake and fantasy about the theme we discuss in a healthy and precious way here. In these cases, there are no guilt to people that try to move and search before recognize fails.
Panorama is different when involves money, false media focus, false fame searchers and cheat. We are not going to get very popular but specially when asked for, something should be done.
I'm a hard enemy of those who use a bizarre line of aproach in their appreciation. I would preffer a clear chrystaline and comprehensive technical talk, what means, hard work to whom has time and knoledge. M. jun/15
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Re: re: Fraud Forum?

Post by Oxygon »

murilo wrote:M. jun/15
murilo, the post date is posted with the post when posted.... to the right of your name.

frosted flakes.
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