The Dawn of Clean Energy

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

Now on you tube a video of the Geo Genny concept model, that prove once and for all gravity can be used as a fuel! I will post the drawings as soon as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTbIAQb2zM

Regards Trevor

[Tarsier79]

Each generator will put load on the main motor. I don't see this as being of any benefit. You may as well hook up a 12v motor via belts to 2 x 12v generators and expect twice the output.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Tarsier 79

You would think that, but that is not what is happening, if it was a ring gear (fixed point ) or similar then yes you would be right 9 in and 8 out, but the levers are moving with the wheel and so are the generator, so that is not the case, the backing force of the generators is being totally overwhelmed by the preloaded leverage.

If the weight wheel was not there then the generators kick back would move the levers out of balance this you would need to be worked against ( there would still be more out than in though ), I have moved the levers out even more by pushing them with the wheels but gravity is still pulling straight down so the backing force is working against gravity, In the video I hung weights on the levers cogs to simulate the backing torque.

To put in simple terms what you have here is a very clever gear box with a preloaded torque and no fixed points apart from the axles.


Regards Trevor

Edit, to make sense, its be a long day.

[Tarsier79]

I looked at the video again, and Trevor, I think you are sadly mistaken. The front ring is held off centre by the bicycle wheel pushing against it. What you have here is the equivalent of a simple dual axis build, but with much more friction. He would reduce friction with a fixed second axis instead of a virtual one. Even so there is no hope of OU here.

I stand by my first statement.

Cheers

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Tarsier 79,

Let me say this, your concerns was my first concerns, but are no longer, I view my design more as guided leverage rather than solid state connections.

I will explain more when I get the drawings posted so you can see more option that are at hand.

Regards Trevor

[beapilot]

Hi,

Thank you for your contributions. I want to say that I see your idea not going to work. I understand your wheel looks OB but the bike wheel prevents it OB and acts like a stationary wall. That wall will cancel out the weight on the main wheel making the wheel balanced. A rule of thumb, try not to have any stationary parts.

Good Try,

Joshua

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

I looked at the video again, and Trevor, I think you are sadly mistaken. The front ring is held off centre by the bicycle wheel pushing against it. What you have here is the equivalent of a simple dual axis build, but with much more friction. He would reduce friction with a fixed second axis instead of a virtual one. Even so there is no hope of OU here.

I stand by my first statement.

Cheers

Hi Tarsier 79,

Let me say this, your concerns was my first concerns, but is no longer, I view my design more as guided leverage, this is one of the reasons why the play in the weight wheel hole is important to guide the levers and not so much to drive them. I see the backing force of the generator being built up with momentum, at the same time I see a good leverage force acting on the generators as the levers are pulled down by gravity,

I do not see the backing force reaching the weight wheel as it is overwhelmed by leverage before it gets there, it would have to lift the levers against gravity to do that, the leverage forces acting on the generators and the generators force acting on the levers would be spread evenly on the main wheel.

The backing force of the generator is being built up with momentum, with momentum the starting force is reduced and it easer to rotate, the backing force of the generators should not require a grater force than the starting force, there is a lot of R&D still needed as you would expect given the number of ratios in play.

There is many options that can be changed, here is three of them, One, drive the push over wheel as well as or instead of a main wheel drive. Two, increase the weight pivots holes size in the weight wheel. Three rotate the wheel in the opposite direction to the one shown on the video.

Another option is removing the two extra wheel and over weight the levers, playing with the levers designs to reduce the out of balance kick back from the generators, the list goes on.

PS I was to late to edit, but I will post a drawing here and post the rest on a new topic.

Edit, Figure 3 Shows a cut away drawing of the gravity blade wheel, showing two wheels with a shared axle and each wheel would contain multi sets of generator and gravity blades staggered to be in a better counterbalance state, the hatched lines show where the weight rings (wheels) could be fitted if using that option. A = the main wheel, BM = bearing means, G = generators, GB = gravity blades (weighted levers), SR = electric slip rings to tap off energy.

Regard Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi,

Thank you for your contributions. I want to say that I see your idea not going to work. I understand your wheel looks OB but the bike wheel prevents it OB and acts like a stationary wall. That wall will cancel out the weight on the main wheel making the wheel balanced. A rule of thumb, try not to have any stationary parts.

Good Try,

Joshua

Hi Joshua, it is not meant to be a O of B wheel, it is meant to be a balanced wheel with out of balance torque.

Regards Trevor

[Tarsier79]

Hey Trevor

I didn't notice it was your build, as Sadiq also linked to this video.

I applaud the amount of time put into such a monster build. However, I think you should do some further torque testing before you spend up on generators and motors.

At least now you have confirmed the neighbors suspicions that you are a nutcase;)

Cheers

[greendoor]

Trevor - i'm sorry to say I just don't get it. This proves nothing to me - I just see a device that you spin up by hand, and then it slows down. Your measurement of force does not prove anything - other than the rather obvious principle of force multiplication that all levers and gearboxes operate on. In other words, well-under-unity performance.

I constantly hope that there is some surprising twist and maybe you have rediscovered the Bessler principle - but i'm just not seeing any proof at all.

Forget the gold-rush megawatt mentality that you are prone to. You have to get right back to very simple basics first. You have to prove over-unity, otherwise you are wasting your time and money (again).

Adequate proof would be a device where we can see you drop a weight a certain height, and have the same weight, or equivalent weight, lifted up to a higher point. Provided it could do this repeatedly, this would be clear over-unity. Simply measuring force is not enough - you could do this with a simple lever.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Thanks guys,

I think I need to show you MK one, two, and three, as I have shown you MK 4, then you would better see the thinking behind it! I will take it to bits and show you one step at a time starting with the gravity blades wherein the wheel rotates and the blades are pulled down by gravity the problem being that the backing torque of the would be generators pushed the gravity blade (weighted levers ) to a negative out of balance, still more out than in though, but no where near 1 to 8. This was because there was no leverage as the levers was facing down thus would move outward until the leverage matched the backing torque.

I thought it would be better to start with the levers outward trying to fall inward thus totally overwhelming the generators backing torque right from the start as it stops CF and levers swing keeping a constant torque on the generators.

It will take a bit of time to get it all together so I will post a new topic later.

Thanks for your input, Regards Trevor

Edit , new sentence.

[Tarsier79]

Hey Trevor,

The Back torque of the generators will attempt to push the ring downwards and against the wheel hub on the left. As the ring won't move in that direction, the back torque will be transferred back to the axle and drive motor, at a ratio of 1:1. The drive motor will also have to overcome the friction of the assembly.

Before you disassemble, do as Greendoor suggested.

Using 2 equal heavily weighted levers, see if one at 3:00 can push down on the axle, lifting a single lever on the 9:00 pedal lever, positioned also at 3:00. This will show you if you have more force at the generator attachment point.

Cheers

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hey Trevor

I didn't notice it was your build, as Sadiq also linked to this video.

I applaud the amount of time put into such a monster build. However, I think you should do some further torque testing before you spend up on generators and motors.

At least now you have confirmed the neighbors suspicions that you are a nutcase;)

Cheers

Its not going to cost much, the generator would be off scrap cars and the drive would be a 12volt battery drill less the battery and hooked up to the generators and throw in some light bulbs for effect.

Your last quote has explained a lot to me but has advantages, no one borrows any thing and they never pop round, and they always smile at me even if they are thinking best humor him before he loses it again.

Regards Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hey Trevor,

The Back torque of the generators will attempt to push the ring downwards and against the wheel hub on the left. As the ring won't move in that direction, the back torque will be transferred back to the axle and drive motor, at a ratio of 1:1. The drive motor will also have to overcome the friction of the assembly.

Before you disassemble, do as Greendoor suggested.

Using 2 equal heavily weighted levers, see if one at 3:00 can push down on the axle, lifting a single lever on the 9:00 pedal lever, positioned also at 3:00. This will show you if you have more force at the generator attachment point.

Cheers

This design will always be designed so that the generator backing torque would be a smaller percentage of the leverage force, and as you said it should be rotated in the direction that the backing force is trying to lift the levers weight thus reducing the force on the push over wheel, the lever test as suggested would not prove anything as the dynamics are very different to the generator backing torque which do not add weight to the system, the lever force transfer is on equal distance pivots on the wheel, do not forget that the backing torque is created by the levers leverage force in the first place, it maybe worth thinking about wind turbine for a minute, I can only see one way to prove it and that is to add a drive system and generators.

I have just wrote the above and cannot be bothered to change it, but I think that there is no backing force in a generator just a greater input of force required that is converted in electricity, I have been working on weight shifts to long sorry about that!

As always thanks for your input, Regards Trevor

[triplock]

When you believe Trevor, you believe 100%. I'll give you that mate...

Chris